Is it really so much harder to use ones own aggression against them?

[Kung Fu Wang]

If we compare these 2 videos, it's clearly to see the difference.

Conservative approach - He waits for his opportunity.

Aggressive approach - He creates his opportunity.

This is another aggressive approach video. Within 15 second, he used the same combo to take his opponent down twice in a role.

 

[Fungus]

I think people confuse "overwhelming aggression" with constant forward pressure on the opponent (denying them their "turn" )

Good point.

And I think "using the aggresion against them" often also means exploiting when someone is "overcomitting" to an attack, both mentally and balance-wise. Not necessarily beeing driven only by "agreession".

As in kyokushin we don't point spar, and don't do much in and out, there os often a "constant pressure" from opponent. It can be probably up to 3 punches a second at your chest, stomach and liver etc... intermixed with various kicks. When there are such a high pressure, blocking them all is hard. It is very different from the SLOW pace in say bunkai applications! Bunkai methods break down at high pressure!

The counter approach to pressure, can vary. One way (if you CAN) is to respond with the same, but more, harder and faster. But that takes alot. This is very hard if the opponent is both faster and stronger. Theny will run you over. Other option is to try to make them go all in on punching, so you can creat a quick distance and counter with a kick or something.

 

[Badhabits]

Good point.

And I think "using the aggresion against them" often also means exploiting when someone is "overcomitting" to an attack, both mentally and balance-wise. Not necessarily beeing driven only by "agreession".

As in kyokushin we don't point spar, and don't do much in and out, there os often a "constant pressure" from opponent. It can be probably up to 3 punches a second at your chest, stomach and liver etc... intermixed with various kicks. When there are such a high pressure, blocking them all is hard. It is very different from the SLOW pace in say bunkai applications! Bunkai methods break down at high pressure!

The counter approach to pressure, can vary. One way (if you CAN) is to respond with the same, but more, harder and faster. But that takes alot. This is very hard if the opponent is both faster and stronger. Theny will run you over. Other option is to try to make them go all in on punching, so you can creat a quick distance and counter with a kick or something.

In my mind aggression is more of a mental state that you act out of. There may be overlap but like someone else here said, it's different from assertiveness, and other mental states. You can clock someone without there being aggression. Kyokushin style sparring is great. I've been to dojos that mainly point spar but will use kyokushin type sparring as a drill/exercise to drive home various points such as- point sparring is not real fighting, if you try to successively block multiple fast attacks you'll get hit eventually, breaking someone's forward momentum etc. And just how mentally exhausting being on the receiving end of that can be. Someone who can run rings around you tagging you at will in point sparring.....after only a few seconds of that close quarter constant barrage they're sweating, red in the face and starting to fall apart. Its closer to the "real fights" I've seen than just about anything else.
I do think the blocking techniques in karate as a whole were designed to handle that forward momentum. Combined with footwork and body shifting as a whole technique they work quite well to sort of funnel that forward momentum into a bad place. If that fails I'll just shield my face and dive into them with an elbow sticking out in front lol.

 

[HighKick]

In my mind aggression is more of a mental state that you act out of. There may be overlap but like someone else here said, it's different from assertiveness, and other mental states. You can clock someone without there being aggression. Kyokushin style sparring is great. I've been to dojos that mainly point spar but will use kyokushin type sparring as a drill/exercise to drive home various points such as- point sparring is not real fighting, if you try to successively block multiple fast attacks you'll get hit eventually, breaking someone's forward momentum etc. And just how mentally exhausting being on the receiving end of that can be. Someone who can run rings around you tagging you at will in point sparring.....after only a few seconds of that close quarter constant barrage they're sweating, red in the face and starting to fall apart. Its closer to the "real fights" I've seen than just about anything else.
I do think the blocking techniques in karate as a whole were designed to handle that forward momentum. Combined with footwork and body shifting as a whole technique they work quite well to sort of funnel that forward momentum into a bad place. If that fails I'll just shield my face and dive into them with an elbow sticking out in front lol.

I was in the circuit for three years and have just north of 200 total matches in a variety of different rules bound formats. This does Not include the countless spars during regular classes.
I always describe my mental state BEFORE a match as 'seething', emotion and adrenaline near max, senses fully heightened. But when I was in the ring, I controlled it so that it was an 'energy reserve', not a function of how I fought or acted in the ring. Sometimes, it would come out after a match, particularly if the matches were short where I did not expend enough of my adrenaline. Nothing crazy; just hyped up and energetic.

I have said it many times' adrenaline and emotion can work for you or against you.

 

[windwalker099]

If we compare these 2 videos, it's clearly to see the difference.

Conservative approach - He waits for his opportunity.

Aggressive approach - He creates his opportunity.

This is another aggressive approach video. Within 15 second, he used the same combo to take his opponent down twice in a role.

In another thread about "iron palm" you mentioned the development / purpose of it is for hurting people..

Do you equate "aggressiveness" with the same idea...?

David Chin, talks about different mindset demoing the same movement used for fighting...
He talks about a different "mind set" mentioning the technique didn't change...
Thoughts ?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In another thread about "iron palm" you mentioned the development / purpose of it is for hurting people..

Do you equate "aggressiveness" with the same idea...?

You don't need to hurt your opponent to end a fight.

After you have taken your opponent down, both you and your opponent will still see the sun rise next morning.

 

[drop bear]

If you are going to fight. You have to want to be there. You need to be present in the moment and you have to accept you might loose.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are going to fight. You have to want to be there. You need to be present in the moment and you have to accept you might loose.

Old saying said, "(出手见红) – hand out see red – when the hand comes out it must draw blood.".

It's sounds very violent. But if you look into this logic. If you don't hate your opponent enough and want to draw blood out of him, you should not accept that fight. In 99.99% of the fighting situation, you truly don't hate your opponent that much. So, 99.99% of the time, you don't have a good reason to fight.

 

[ap Oweyn]

I guess I would want to know how you're operationalizing "using an opponent's aggression against them." I mean, it's a great soundbyte. One that gets trotted out by martial artists a lot. But how do you actually see that idea manifesting?

In the movies, it's usually some opponent who horribly overcommits to some move or another, and is consequently flung like a rag doll. But fighters who actually know what they're doing are fair less likely to overextend that way.

Being aggressive doesn't necessarily mean being any of these things on which that narrative tends to rely: off-balance, uncoordinated, tunnel visioned, over-emotional, etc. So "using it against them" is so much more easily said than done.

I guess I'd really need to watch you using someone's aggression against them to see how feasible I thought it really was for you as a general approach.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So "using it against them" is so much more easily said than done.

To let your opponent to run into your kick can be one way.

 

[drop bear]

Strike lighter, faster and with more efficiency. And they are more likley to walk in to a deciding shot.

Throw harder but slower and less often and they are more likley to counter

So two of the simplest dynamics this works is throwing straight punches while they are throwing round punches.

Or you get them acting aggressively. They gas themselves out and then you maul them.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Maybe it's not so hard, but it is harder, because it requires experience and self control. I've always been an advocate of taking the fight to the enemy, personally, but I've also been conclusively beaten by people who were much better counterfighters. In fact, when I did boxing the coach was 'honestly impressed' because he'd 'never seen anybody walk into so many punches'. Defensive skills are certainly just as important as offensive ones. Mike Tyson, for instance, is known for his aggression, but without a parallel body of defensive skills, he wouldn't have lasted long.

 

[marvin8]

Strike lighter, faster and with more efficiency. And they are more likley to walk in to a deciding shot.

Throw harder but slower and less often and they are more likley to counter

So two of the simplest dynamics this works is throwing straight punches while they are throwing round punches.

Or you get them acting aggressively. They gas themselves out and then you maul them.

Yes. Aggression works because less people know how to handle the pressure. Be the matador while controlling the fight. Let the opponent wear themselves out if possible. Use long guard, straight punches and kicks to make them hesitate. Use distance and angles to turn the opponent. As they react by charging forwards, create your angle and counter them.

 

[HighKick]

I guess I would want to know how you're operationalizing "using an opponent's aggression against them." I mean, it's a great soundbyte. One that gets trotted out by martial artists a lot. But how do you actually see that idea manifesting?

In the movies, it's usually some opponent who horribly overcommits to some move or another, and is consequently flung like a rag doll. But fighters who actually know what they're doing are fair less likely to overextend that way.

Being aggressive doesn't necessarily mean being any of these things on which that narrative tends to rely: off-balance, uncoordinated, tunnel visioned, over-emotional, etc. So "using it against them" is so much more easily said than done.

I guess I'd really need to watch you using someone's aggression against them to see how feasible I thought it really was for you as a general approach.

Way back in the 'heydays of WT TKD circuit competition, I saw so many silly things that would work (and was allowed by the ref's). Blowing kisses, kissing on the cheek during a clinch, grabbing the groin, taunting before and during matches, and more.
Eventually the rules were modified to eliminate most all of that stuff. I will say a smile was allowed and you might be surprised just how much affect a smile can have at the right time.

A big part of applying aggression as strategy is studying your competition and identifying what triggers them in a match, such as certain kicks or combination/counters. For example, some people do not like to be pressed and will get agitated, some people are just the opposite.

 

[_Simon_]

I prefer the tactic of passive-aggressiveness.

"Hmm.. can see you're in one of your moods..."

"No no it's fine. I'll just forget you hit me. It's fine."


It's very self-defencey.

 

[Haruhiko]

Way back in the 'heydays of WT TKD circuit competition, I saw so many silly things that would work (and was allowed by the ref's). Blowing kisses, kissing on the cheek during a clinch, grabbing the groin, taunting before and during matches, and more.
Eventually the rules were modified to eliminate most all of that stuff. I will say a smile was allowed and you might be surprised just how much affect a smile can have at the right time.

A big part of applying aggression as strategy is studying your competition and identifying what triggers them in a match, such as certain kicks or combination/counters. For example, some people do not like to be pressed and will get agitated, some people are just the opposite.

I remember being encouraged to do very unsportsmanlike things in TKD competitions like adjusting shinguards at opportune moments, and even in the bind, to separate whilst holding the opponent's shield to then roundhouse kick so that the referee, and at least three of the four/five judges can see the kick clearly.

Messy times...

 

[Gyakuto]

Aggression is the red mist that descends upon you in the anger of the moment. It is frightening for the victim and that can often stop them dead, but it can cloud one’s own judgement and degrade one’s technique. It’s more effective to be objective and calm and apply one’s techniques in a clinical precise fashion

 

[Gyakuto]

I think people confuse "overwhelming aggression" with constant forward pressure on the opponent (denying them their "turn" )

This is known as ‘seme’ in the Japanese arts. It is the unrelenting, determined position of advantage almost like ‘pressure’, maintained on the opponent to stifle their bellicosity.