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RyuShiKan
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I would like to know why a few people seem to think there is a need to invent a new martial art.
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Originally posted by RyuShiKan
I would like to know why a few people seem to think there is a need to invent a new martial art.
The answer is in the top of my other post. Its about the ranges.
Originally posted by chufeng
In your post lies the answer...
Too many people do NOT explore their art deeply enough to look at a variety of ranges...
But, you don't need a new art...you need to go deeper into the art you practice.
Many techniques can be found in the simplest movements in forms...most people look at the "bunkai" from a "fighting distance.
That is a place to start, and in fact, it was taught that way to the newer people in the art on purpose...the juicy stuff was saved for the serious student...but just like you had to learn the alphabet before spelling, and spelling before writing a sentence, and writing a sentence before short essays...there had to be a place to start...
Once the movement of a form is hard wired into your nervous system...and once you applied the techniques of obvious "bunkai" thousands of times, you learned a pattern of movement...that pattern is what you then use to learn the deeper levels of your art...now apply the pattern to an attack from the rear...now apply it from the side...now apply it at weapons distance...now in your face...
YES, the old arts DO teach ALL ranges of fighting...but it takes many years to SEE that...too many people leave before they have drunk deeply enough from the well of understanding...too many people have promoted people prematurely, for money, and given the newly promoted the right to teach something of which they really know nothing...THAT is why MANY schools do NOT understand WHAT they are teaching...that is why you feel you need to reinvent something that has been in front of you all of this time...
IMHO
:asian:
chufeng
Originally posted by chufeng
No one can really master more than probably three forms in a lifetime...so WHY 72???
Hence, the question posed by RyuShiKan, WHY do we need more than we already have when we don't even understand what's in front of us?
Originally posted by chufeng
In your post lies the answer...
Too many people do NOT explore their art deeply enough to look at a variety of ranges...
But, you don't need a new art...you need to go deeper into the art you practice.
Many techniques can be found in the simplest movements in forms...most people look at the "bunkai" from a "fighting distance.
That is a place to start, and in fact, it was taught that way to the newer people in the art on purpose...the juicy stuff was saved for the serious student...but just like you had to learn the alphabet before spelling, and spelling before writing a sentence, and writing a sentence before short essays...there had to be a place to start...
Once the movement of a form is hard wired into your nervous system...and once you applied the techniques of obvious "bunkai" thousands of times, you learned a pattern of movement...that pattern is what you then use to learn the deeper levels of your art...now apply the pattern to an attack from the rear...now apply it from the side...now apply it at weapons distance...now in your face...
YES, the old arts DO teach ALL ranges of fighting...but it takes many years to SEE that...too many people leave before they have drunk deeply enough from the well of understanding...too many people have promoted people prematurely, for money, and given the newly promoted the right to teach something of which they really know nothing...THAT is why MANY schools do NOT understand WHAT they are teaching...that is why you feel you need to reinvent something that has been in front of you all of this time...
IMHO
:asian:
chufeng
I just haven't seen a traditional system that is truely "all ranges."
Originally posted by akja
Was that aimed at me? I don't understand? [/B]
And like I said before, you really need to do the math. 65% standup and 35% groundgrappling. For every hour of training, there is approximately 20 minutes on the ground.
There is no kata bunkai that can teach you like that!
If all you are interested in is fighting skill, then go spit in somebody's beer...repeat until you get the fighting thing correct.
If all you are interested in is self-defense, then get a permit to carry concealed weapons and spend some time on the range...
If you want to learn a martial art...spend some time with it...
Originally posted by pesilat
Absolutely not. I've gathered that you are or have started your own system, but I haven't seen anything about it except the very brief description you gave. As I said previously, I reserve judgment until I see/feel it first hand. I have no idea what your motivations are.
But ... why would you think it was aimed at you?
Mike
Originally posted by chufeng
Exactly !!!
YOU haven't seen it...but it is out there...
Your whole concept of "practicing for thirty years isn't efficient" IS the problem...anything worthwhile is worth the patience necessary to get to that end result...MOST teachers don't give any one art thirty years...and so we have this proliferation of "sensei" who don't KNOW why this or that particular movement is in a form.
Forms are VERY important in keeping an art alive...the forms are the textbooks from which we pull all of the neat stuff out of.
Do I train ONLY in forms...no...
...ask Yiliquan1...
Drills and freestyle drill are HOW we learn and test our technique.
If all you are interested in is fighting skill, then go spit in somebody's beer...repeat until you get the fighting thing correct.
If all you are interested in is self-defense, then get a permit to carry concealed weapons and spend some time on the range...
If you want to learn a martial art...spend some time with it...
:asian:
chufeng
I'm not opposed to new systems, per se, but I do wonder at what point one is qualified to make changes significant enough to found a new system.
Akja wrote:
And my goal is to make my students better than myself. And I will teach my students how to beat any system that I have learned.
Originally posted by pesilat
OK. Going back through the series of posts that led to my statement, I can see how you might have gotten that impression.
My bad. No, it wasn't aimed at you.
It was a general statement about anyone who doesn't dig deep enough to fully appreciate what is in front of them; then they go off and start a new art to fill the imaginary gap that they, in their ignorance, perceive.
If this does apply to you, then it is, in fact, aimed at you. But I'm not in a position to aim anything at you. Only you know why you are creating your own system. As I said before, personally, I reserve judgment until I see/feel it in person. If I ever get the opportunity to meet and work out with you, then I would determine whether I personally thought your system had merit.
Mike
Originally posted by pesilat
6 hours or not, you're a lucky bugger to be close enough to visit Guro Dan's school on even a semi-regular basis. I've been to a couple of classes there with him and spent 100+ hours at seminars with him. He's an incredibly well-versed martial artist, an excellent practitioner, and one of the best instructors I've seen.
I'm curious about this statement, though. Was it poor wording, or do you actually think that way? Not trying to attack you, just curious.
Your students won't be fighting the systems that you've learned. They'd be fighting people who train in the systems. But you can't guarantee that any of your students will be able to beat any student of any system all the time.
Mike
Originally posted by akja
I didn't think so but I've gotten hammered so much, I wouldn't put it past anyone. Your posts are very objective and I can tell you understand quite a bit more than what a lot of people are willing to accept.
I'm not creating a new system, it created itself. Its a part of me guiding a fighter into his own self as a martial artist.