Is Goju Ryus reputation as street effective attributed to its close range emphasis?

[jobo]

i am going to put the nonsensical argument aside and focus on the actual question.



this is a fallacy and at best one persons opinion.





first i would want to define "street effective". for this argument i would define it as two guys in a bar who get into a fist fight, the typical dominance thing.

first Okinawan Goju- ryu has weight resistance training incorporated into the curriculum. its not tacked on the begining of the class like doing jumping jacks as a warm up. the weight training is integral to the style. this makes the average practitioner in better shape than average.
second it was never intended to be a sport like main land Japanese Shotokan and other main land styles.
The style has a very grounded stance and composure. this gives the practitioner the ablility and familiarity to standing there trading punches. A bar room fight happens within close proximity, pushing , pulling and trading punches. Goju -ryu is very good at this. Shotokan has become more of a point sparring feel where the practitioner moves in and out of range where the Goju guy is more likely to stand and trade like Wanderlei Silva in MMA.

IF and thats a big IF Goju ryu does have a reputation as being good for street fighting it would be because of these attributes. but i have to add... having a reputation and the actual reality of something are two entirely separate things.

i was going to say something like this, with out the in depth knowledge, real fighting is hard and messy, there is no time for dancing,around feinting and,finding range, some guy has you by the throat and you start from there, there is a marked advantage to the,fittest person in the fight and that's generaly a,strengh component, if an art is bigger on developing strengh than another then its reasonable to suppose that person will a quit them shelves better in pushing and pulling match. Once they are up close, long range skills are of little use, if an art has better short range skills then it would seem more use

 

[JR 137]

Isshinryu combines Gojuryu and Shorinryu. There, problem solved.

Kyokushin combines Goju Ryu and Shotokan. Problem solved yet again.

 

[hoshin1600]

or you could just learn Ameri-do-Te and be done with these other BS styles.

 

[Axiom]

this is a fallacy and at best one persons opinion.

How is that a fallacy or opinion? You can empirically investigate which type of Karateka that has the most success in Point Karate, and unless you attribute it to a giant advantage in talent pool, then it's clear that the style as something to do with it. I don't see why Goju Ryu neccesarily has a weaker talent pool for competition than Shotokan.

 

[hoshin1600]

How is that a fallacy or opinion? You can empirically investigate which type of Karateka that has the most success in Point Karate, and unless you attribute it to a giant advantage in talent pool, then it's clear that the style as something to do with it. I don't see why Goju Ryu neccesarily has a weaker talent pool for competition than Shotokan.

for starters, in this reply you are only addressing half of your statement. you originally said shotokan is better for point fighting but goju is better for street fighting.
second i would really like to see this "empirical data" can you please post it or post a link?

 

[Axiom]

for starters, in this reply you are only addressing half of your statement. you originally said shotokan is better for point fighting but goju is better for street fighting.
second i would really like to see this "empirical data" can you please post it or post a link?

Do I really need to prove to you that the majority of the champions are Shotokan Karatekas? It could of course be due to Shotokan clubs being more prevalent in the world, since it's the most popular Karate style. But really doesn't it make sense that long range fighters do better in point stop rules? It's their bread and butter. Close range street fighting is not.

 

[Tez3]

Do I really need to prove to you that the majority of the champions are Shotokan Karate winners? It could of course be due to Shotokan clubs being more prevalent in the world, since it's the biggest Karate style. But really doesn't it make sense that long range fighters do better in point stop rules? It's their bread and butter. Close range street fighting is not.

Do you understand how karate competitions are organised, how many 'world' organisations there are that run 'World and European' championships? I know of five just off the top of my head. So which one do you think 'Shotokan' rules in particular? Would it be the Shotokan only one do you think?

 

[Axiom]

Do you understand how karate competitions are organised, how many 'world' organisations there are that run 'World and European' championships? I know of five just off the top of my head. So which one do you think 'Shotokan' rules in particular? Would it be the Shotokan only one do you think?

Yes, I understand that. Shotokan dominates in the ones were Goju Ryu is allowed. That's why I wrote "open style" competitions.

 

[MA_Student]

Do I really need to prove to you that the majority of the champions are Shotokan Karatekas? It could of course be due to Shotokan clubs being more prevalent in the world, since it's the most popular Karate style. But really doesn't it make sense that long range fighters do better in point stop rules? It's their bread and butter. Close range street fighting is not.

Yeah you do know most championships in karate mean basically nothing these days right? A 5 year old could win 1 fight and then get called a world champion because there's no one else in his category. That happens loads of times these days even among adults and the fact there's so many competitions around it's frankly impossible to see which style gets the most....unless you're just looking at shotokan tournaments then well...who do you think is going to win a shotokan tournament...hmmm maybe the shotokan guys.

Also since when has shotokan ever been the most popular style. There's 0 way of telling what styles the most popular unless you go round to every single club of every single style and count how many students they have.
Do you really need to prove it? No but I'd like to see you try and prove it.

 

[Axiom]

Also since when has shotokan ever been the most popular style. There's 0 way of telling what styles the most popular unless you go round to every single club of every single style and count how many students they have.
Do you really need to prove it? No but I'd like to see you try and prove it.

Shotokan is the most prevalent Karate style by a mile. Not even worth counting.

 

[MA_Student]

Shotokan is the most prevalent Karate style by a mile. Not even worth counting.

No it isn't theres not a single shotokan club In my area but there's about 10 kenpo schools, 3 kyoshikin and an ishinryu club. You just seem to be spouting out your opinions as facts. If you know this for a fact then prove it show us with facts that it's the most prevalent

 

[Axiom]

You don't half talk a load of rubbish. No it isn't theres not a single shotokan club In my area but there's about 10 kenpo schools, 3 kyoshikin and an ishinryu club. You just seem to be spouting out your opinions as facts. If you know this for a fact then prove it show us with facts that it's the most prevalent

No, I had enough of you.

 

[drop bear]

During my years of MA experience (20+), I enjoy looking into and reading about other arts to learn about who/why they were started. The ONLY common denominator in ALL of the arts is that the people who helped make the art famous as being "effective" were all VERY tough guys. It doesn't matter what the art was, they had a mental toughness and trained hard.

I don't think it would have mattered what art you put those guys in, they would have been great fighters because of their attributes that they brought to the table. The tools they used were incidental.

We had a lot of TKD hard men in the mafia back in the day.

 

[Headhunter]

Shotokan is the most prevalent Karate style by a mile. Not even worth counting.

Not worth counting...so that means you basically have no idea what's the most popular you're just saying whatever you want and claiming it as facts

 

[MA_Student]

.

 

[hoshin1600]

Yes, I understand that. Shotokan dominates in the ones were Goju Ryu is allowed. That's why I wrote "open style" competitions.

dude your making things up now. TEZ hit my point on the money. there are so many organizations out there that your empirical data is impossible to substantiate.
let me explain the way the world works to you. styles and organizations tend to keep to themselves. In America the Uechi ryu oranizations really only compete in the American Uechi - Ryu Championship and the All Okinawan Championship. Okinawan Goju-Ryu also participates in the All Okinawan Championship. but guess what shotokan does not participate and is not allowed to participate in these competitions. so if the the Uechi and Goju guys have their own tournament and i would guess the places you are sourcing your info on only looks at say the WKF which may have a majority of Shotokan type style participants and no Uechi and very low Goju how are you going to make any kind of determination?

 

[MA_Student]

dude your making things up now. TEZ hit my point on the money. there are so many organizations out there that your empirical data is impossible to substantiate.
let me explain the way the world works to you. styles and organizations tend to keep to themselves. In America the Uechi ryu oranizations really only compete in the American Uechi - Ryu Championship and the All Okinawan Championship. Okinawan Goju-Ryu also participates in the All Okinawan Championship. but guess what shotokan does not participate and is not allowed to participate in these competitions. so if the the Uechi and Goju guys have their own tournament and i would guess the places you are sourcing your info on only looks at say the WKF which may have a majority of Shotokan type style participants and no Uechi and very low Goju how are you going to make any kind of determination?

Yep as I've said there's hundreds of karate completions happening around the world every single week there's been billions of so called world champions and I know I've seen a few tournaments where you don't even have to fight/ perform your kata and you're called a champion since there's no one else in your division

 

[Axiom]

dso if the the Uechi and Goju guys have their own tournament and i would guess the places you are sourcing your info on only looks at say the WKF which may have a majority of Shotokan type style participants and no Uechi and very low Goju how are you going to make any kind of determination?

That's why I wrote that it might have to do with pure number of Shotokan practitioners participating over Goju. Anyway, I was not the one making the claim, but it made sense based on what characterises each style.

 

[KenpoBoxer]

Lol so you're assumption that goju Ryu is better for the street is because some scumbag thug beat up a few people?

 

[hoshin1600]

That's why I wrote that it might have to do with pure number of Shotokan practitioners participating over Goju. Anyway, I was not the one making the claim, but it made sense based on what characterises each style.

i dont want to gang pile up on you for your thoughts or ideas. but keep a few things in mind, myself and some others here have been training longer than you have been on the planet. that doesnt mean we are always right, it just means that you need to have thought though any argument or debate because we will not just accept random points as fact. we will challenge you on them. try not to be too stuck on any one idea and be open to changing your mind (doesnt mean you have to it just means dont go into an argument being stubborn)

on the thought of shotokan being better than Goju for point sparring, if you asked me if i thought shotokan was better i would say YES!!! but like they often ask in school "show your work" your logic on how you got to that conclusion is flawed. i would guess that it is not your fault so much as it is that it is something you read on line, it sounded reasonable so you went with that idea but are unsure how that conclusion is reached.

now the other side of your premise is that Goju is better for "street fighting" well thats a big can of worms. ideas like that have been beaten like a dead horse around here. again i will say if you feel that way, if you want to present it as a fact then you better have a really sound logical argument. the alternative is to present it as a question. this is what i read ....what do you guys think? you kind of did that so kudos to you but you started it out as a fact then asked another question related to it.

if we a re beating you up dont be discouraged,,,that happens in class as much as it does here...welcome aboard.