Is "Fighterman" Crazy?

[KamonGuy2]

The moment people talk about superior chi sao, they have not understood the purpose of it. Chi sao is sparring. Its learning attributes whilst testing your structures and techniques under pressure.
To say one group of schools is better at chi sao than another is again going back to the style vs style debate. Better methods of training, sure. But not all wing chun schools are aiming for the same thing. Ip Chun for example has a nice documentary on youtube on how he doesnt use wing chun for fighting or combat.
So straight away, we have a group who will be using their chi sao for an entirely different purpose. Another group may use their chi sao to develop stick, sensitivity and technique.
Another group may use it as full on sparring. In Kamon, for example, we have an 'anything goes' attitude, in that eventually, you should welcome any type of attack from your partner in chi sao, even if they are non-WC moves.
Leung Tings group has always had controversy surrounding them, despite producing some great talent, and they are part of the reason for the politics that exists in WC

 

[geezer]

Leung Tings group has always had controversy surrounding them, despite producing some great talent, and they are part of the reason for the politics that exists in WC

True that. Anyway, WELCOME BACK, KAMONGUY! Where ya been???

 

[KPM]

Which is precisely why you should always seek to simply hit. If your opponent's arms are not on the center you make contact. If his arms are on center, then chi sau reflexes come into play.
Simple...always keep it as simple as possible.

Exactly! Which begs the question....would all the time spent training complicated Lat Sau drills against another Wing Chun guy be better spent training something else?

 

[KPM]

Soooooooooo.....I guess kpm has quite a literal view when interpreting chi sau!

I guess it depends on what you mean by "literal"! ;-) But it seems to me so much of the trapping techniques and set ups depend upon a guy standing square in front of you with both arms out in front and pretty parallel to each other. When is that going to happen in a real situation? It is actually pretty hard to trap both of an opponent's arms with one of yours when he is not cooperating and doesn't stand like a Wing Chun guy. Any decent boxer would essentially shrug you off and keep punching!

 

[KPM]

Now don't get me wrong guys! I believe that Chi Sau is an important part of Wing Chun. I just think that many put way too much emphasis on it. These complicated Lat Sau programs are an example of that.

 

[PiedmontChun]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "literal"! ;-) But it seems to me so much of the trapping techniques and set ups depend upon a guy standing square in front of you with both arms out in front and pretty parallel to each other. When is that going to happen in a real situation? It is actually pretty hard to trap both of an opponent's arms with one of yours when he is not cooperating and doesn't stand like a Wing Chun guy. Any decent boxer would essentially shrug you off and keep punching!

I think there was a debate here not too long ago about chi-sau practiced via the lengthy sections like most WT/LT guys, or a more unscripted chi-sau program like in some other lineages that I was merely a spectator for. There was some 'agreeing to disagree" from many IIRC but someone pointed out that the lengthy sections were more about digesting the principles at work in the various attacks and defenses, not just directly applying them as techniques.

I agree with you. I think if we look for a real life defense situation to mirror a drill we have trained so we can respond exactly as it was trained, we are going to just eat a punch. But I would think the sensitivities developed, and the programmed reactions built up from the chi-sau / lat-sau sections provide the tools for controlling center and leaking thru an opponent's defense to attack once contact has been made.
Like I mentioned before, in my experience, I try to box with my WT si-hings when we spar and the moment I am not covering center, my hands or force retreats, or I give to much force they feel it and take advantage of it. Thats not a skill learned simply by sparring.

 

[KPM]

I see what you are saying and agree with you. But the more complicated something becomes, the less likely it is to actually work under pressure. If something requires more than 3 steps or beats to carry out, it is not likely to work when you need it. That is something that was really beaten into me from training FMA, and I've found it applies to Wing Chun as well.

 

[Jake104]

Is "Fighterman" Fernandez crazy? Probably. But in a good way! Check out the following clip. It's directed at the WC lineage, but IMO the problem he's addressing could apply to any of us. Please share your thoughts:

I like Sifu Fernandez. He seems sincere and very genuine in sharing his art IMO. His training aproach looks like he tries to keep it realistic and honest. In his last video he mentioned he's being threatened for being to honest in his Leung Ting vs EWTO video series. So now allegedly the European Wing Tsun Mafia is after him and threatening to hurt him. Lol! Hopefully that doesn't scare him too much. If so, he definitely looses some street cred! Haha!