Is Akido worth learning? (Self Defense)

[O'Malley]

It's specifically designed to immobilise, but not hurt. I have disdain for this because out of all the confrontations I have had, my opponents never went easy on me, and the idea that I should is something I disagree with.

That's actually a myth. Immobilisations are a relatively small part of the curriculum, and an even smaller part of the overall skills trained in aikido. Furthermore, the techniques themselves are not comparatively safer to an attacker. Actually, competitive arts (e.g. wrestling) are much better at neutralising an opponent without hurting him.

This is because it trains through repetition, and though I am a traditionalist, it's simply a method of training that won't allow you to use Aikido for self-defense until you have dedicated yourself to it for a long time.

I don't really understand what you mean by "repetition" but most aikido training is through solo training and kata. However, there are many approaches and emphases to kata training: Pattern Drills: A Requisite Training Methodology Towards Combative Effectiveness – 古現武道

In contrast, modern arts such as Boxing and Sambo, even though they're not necessarily made for self-defense, teach you things from your very first lesson that you can apply almost as soon you walk out of the lesson. Aikido has thousands of techniques - Boxing has 4 punches (with some slight variations) and 5 defenses at most. It also encourages sparring, and unless your school of aikido does too, you're already at a disadvantage compared to the average boxing gym.

Mostly agree with this. Just a note on the "thousands of techniques" bit as it is imprecise. Modern aikido has actually very few techniques (about a dozen) performed from about twenty positions. The curriculum is very limited. I guess that you are referring to "Takemusu Aiki" (birth of martial), the idea that application of aikido principles can be expressed through an infinite number of forms, which is quite different.

 

[Ivan]

That's actually a myth. Immobilisations are a relatively small part of the curriculum, and an even smaller part of the overall skills trained in aikido. Furthermore, the techniques themselves are not comparatively safer to an attacker. Actually, competitive arts (e.g. wrestling) are much better at neutralising an opponent without hurting him.



I don't really understand what you mean by "repetition" but most aikido training is through solo training and kata. However, there are many approaches and emphases to kata training: Pattern Drills: A Requisite Training Methodology Towards Combative Effectiveness – 古現武道



Mostly agree with this. Just a note on the "thousands of techniques" bit as it is imprecise. Modern aikido has actually very few techniques (about a dozen) performed from about twenty positions. The curriculum is very limited. I guess that you are referring to "Takemusu Aiki" (birth of martial), the idea that application of aikido principles can be expressed through an infinite number of forms, which is quite different.

My father's friend described how all of his training was dedicated to locks and techniques that stopped an opponent from moving. As for the repetition, that's exactly what I refer to; lots of training to apply techniques and to perfect them, very little actual application. Many TMAs have a trend where partners show little resistance when techniques are applied, and Aikido doesn't have the commodity of sparring.

 

[Flying Crane]

My father's friend described how all of his training was dedicated to locks and techniques that stopped an opponent from moving. As for the repetition, that's exactly what I refer to; lots of training to apply techniques and to perfect them, very little actual application. Many TMAs have a trend where partners show little resistance when techniques are applied, and Aikido doesn't have the commodity of sparring.

Repetition is key in any martial training. You won’t get good at any of this if you do it ten times and then decide your training is complete and finished. Every time you train, you are doing repetition. I don’t see how you can claim otherwise. What I bolded above, you are describing application, which is what you are saying isn’t done, in the same sentence. Would you care to clarify?

If you are really talking about resistance training, that is a different matter. But when you stop repetition, you have stopped training.

 

[Ivan]

Repetition is key in any martial training. You won’t get good at any of this if you do it ten times and then decide your training is complete and finished. Every time you train, you are doing repetition. I don’t see how you can claim otherwise. What I bolded above, you are describing application, which is what you are saying isn’t done, in the same sentence. Would you care to clarify?

If you are really talking about resistance training, that is a different matter. But when you stop repetition, you have stopped training.

I disagree.
Repetition is always training.
Training is not always repetition.

I could practice a sidekick 10,000 times a day, but the correct technique is worthless if I don't learn to apply it under pressure, or apply it in general. From my experience, TMAs don't teach you to apply techniques under pressure, at least not until a much later level compared to combat sports.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You described the main problem with Aikido, in my opinion, right there. It's specifically designed to immobilise, but not hurt. I have disdain for this because out of all the confrontations I have had, my opponents never went easy on me, and the idea that I should is something I disagree with.

There is a very good book about Aikido called Angry White Pyjamas, a real page-turner. My father also has a friend who has been doing Aikido for a while and claimed he watched him defend himself from a drunk quite skillfully. But if I am honest, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage nowadays if you choose to train in martial arts such as Aikido. This is because it trains through repetition, and though I am a traditionalist, it's simply a method of training that won't allow you to use Aikido for self-defense until you have dedicated yourself to it for a long time.

In contrast, modern arts such as Boxing and Sambo, even though they're not necessarily made for self-defense, teach you things from your very first lesson that you can apply almost as soon you walk out of the lesson. Aikido has thousands of techniques - Boxing has 4 punches (with some slight variations) and 5 defenses at most. It also encourages sparring, and unless your school of aikido does too, you're already at a disadvantage compared to the average boxing gym.

Aïkido contains plenty of techniques that can injure. Early on, injuries were actually common in the dojo. What you see now is largely the result of a later, more philosophical approach.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My father's friend described how all of his training was dedicated to locks and techniques that stopped an opponent from moving. As for the repetition, that's exactly what I refer to; lots of training to apply techniques and to perfect them, very little actual application. Many TMAs have a trend where partners show little resistance when techniques are applied, and Aikido doesn't have the commodity of sparring.

Aikido can have sparring. There’s really no reason it can’t be there.

As for the immobilizations, many schools practice always finishing with one. But the techniques used to get there are often destructive (uke uses breakfalls to avoid injury).

 

[MartialMasterTeddy]

If your looking for esoteric Inner Powers then a System of Mental Constraint and Restraints such as Ashtanga Yoga is better for you. Plus it can be done 100% alone without a partner.
But for MPA, if you only just stand in front of a mirror doing movements it doesn't make any sense. It is an extremely, extremely social Field and Field of Activity.

 

[ranWDY]

Hello,

The topic is very interesting, I'm learning a lot, thank you!

I'd like to start aikido in a few months and I can't find any good information on physical preparation and the equipment you need to start.
Should I buy the equipment right away? Or should I wait a few sessions?

To train at home, once I've bought the equipment, will buying a wooden katana like this one {link deletedy - jks9199} help?

 

[O'Malley]

Hello,

The topic is very interesting, I'm learning a lot, thank you!

I'd like to start aikido in a few months and I can't find any good information on physical preparation and the equipment you need to start.
Should I buy the equipment right away? Or should I wait a few sessions?

To train at home, once I've bought the equipment, will buying a wooden katana like this one Samurai Sword | Hand-Forged | KatanaEmpire.us help?

Hi and welcome to MT. Aikido is relatively accessible in terms of physical fitness, so I'd just advise you to find a dojo, try out a few classes and take it from there (your instructor will let you know what equipment you need and may actually get you a discount in local shops). No need to wait for a few months

 

[mograph]

A wise man told me, "there can be no refinement without repetition."

This does assume that one is attempting to refine and encode that refinement into memory for future recall under pressure. Also, to use that encoded memory in future improvisations, which is an excellent test to see if the memory has been internalized.

... not repetition for its own sake, in other words.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello,

The topic is very interesting, I'm learning a lot, thank you!

I'd like to start aikido in a few months and I can't find any good information on physical preparation and the equipment you need to start.
Should I buy the equipment right away? Or should I wait a few sessions?

To train at home, once I've bought the equipment, will buying a wooden katana like this one Samurai Sword | Hand-Forged | KatanaEmpire.us help?

I would buy nothing unless told. The dojo will tell you all you need to know, and all you need to buy. It is also very likely do not expect you to be especially prepared for any of it. That too they will help you with.

 

[lowfreq42]

If I were starting over, I'd definitely look for that. Never had an opportunity to train at a Tomiki dojo.

I've trained in Tomiki aikido since 2008, with one large gap in my training. When my teacher moved, there was no aikido accessible anywhere near me (I was already driving over an hour to train there) so I switched to other martial arts. I trained BJJ, Muay Thai, and Krav Maga. During those years I had a season of pooh-pooh'ing the practicality of aikido and honestly never intended to go back to training it.

Well, I'm approaching 50 years old now, and after a joint replacement and other injuries from getting beat up by the "harder" arts, I'm returning to aikido. I've heard from my teachers that Kano had Tomiki develop his style of aikido so the aging, broken down judoka could have an art they could still practice. In fact, Tomiki called his aikido "hamare judo" sometimes - "separated judo" / "judo at a distance" because it used many of the same principles (kuzushi/off-balance, tsukuri/fitting, kake/execution) as judo.

I'm finding that I can't continue to train like I used to, and aikido is providing some really interesting practice (like it always did) without the physical trauma. Additionally, given my experiences in the other arts, when I get into certain positions in aikido, there are opportunities for clinching, striking, throwing elbows or knees, hip throws...etc.

One of the judo/aikido guys I used to train with was a bouncer and he said aikido was of more use to him in that role than any other art. One guy I was teaching for a while lived a rough life (lots of bar fights etc) when he was younger and said he could see shomen ate (our first basic technique) being more useful in many situations he experienced back then than throwing punches. Lastly, once while I was training Krav and we were playing with knife attacks, I froze up while I had a 2-on-1 grip on my partner's arm, and aikido came out naturally, to a surprisingly decent effect.

Those are all anecdotal, I know... Fortunately, I can't speak to the "street effectiveness" of Tomiki aikido because I've never been attacked by someone intent on hurting me. But it does seem to me to be better than nothing, complimentary to other "more practical" arts, and an enriching art to practice. My main aikido teacher always said the biggest self defense benefit most people would ever get from aikido would be learning to fall safely, and I can see that being true, especially as we age. But moving off the line of attack and pushing someone down by their face seems pretty viable too.

The ONLY aikido near me is 1.5 hours away, and it's more in the Aikikai lineage, and I have very limited interest in that style anyway (I'm pretty sold on the Tomiki style). I've started teaching Tomiki aikido again, and only have one dedicated student so far (a guy I used to kickbox with), but hoping we can get a resurgence of it in south Louisiana