Irresponsible Gracie Jiu-Jitsu ad?

[Hanzou]

Thats is when you run like hell, poke peoples eyes knee the groin and pull every dirty trick using whatever you get your hands on till you get to your feet and then ( oh ya here it comes) run like hell.

edited: sorry folks saw the above and thought i was on page 3 then realized I was on page 2

While I agree that you need to play every dirty trick, those dirty tricks have a much better chance of succeeding when you're in a dominant position. The dominant position also makes it easier for you to disengage and run away.

Honestly the chances that will happen to a woman are also pretty slim. Most woman are attacked in their homes or vehicles. The rapist hiding in the dark ally are kinda rare. Not saying it doesn't happen but if your playing the odds your much more likely to be attacked as a female in your home

Whether it happens on the cold concrete of an alleyway or in the warmth of their home, or the cramped confines of their car, its the same general principle; Women are far more likely to be grabbed, wrestled down, and assaulted than men.

 

[ballen0351]

Not sure about that either. Most of the time the attacker has a weapon and uses fear more then wrestling. I'm not saying woman shouldn't train I think everyone should but the ideas put out in that thread were not really the reality of most attacks

 

[tshadowchaser]

Home or vehicle, parking lot, or dark ally what difference dose it make they are still being attacked and overwhelmed. Almost every other night there is a report on the television of some woman being attacked in Boston or at one of the numerous colleges nears there. Most of these women are alone in a neighborhood they know at night. Most have said they just where not aware of anyone following them Perhaps just being aware of surroundings and maybe carrying a can of bear repellant or mace could have helped them .
Unfortunately screaming for help seems to have little effect these days so once again running if they reprieve trouble may be the best recourse.
Personally I could not convict a woman who defend herself from rape and accidentally killed the perpetrator if it was obvious she was about to be raped or physically maimed

 

[RTKDCMB]

Force against force? Interesting.

But not what I was getting at.

And when you hit those "vital spots" and the guy is still pulverizing you,

And if you apply a grappling hold and he is still pulverizing you. Same question.

trading punches is exactly what you end up doing.

If you do not have good defense that is what you would end up doing. Striking is like Russian Roulette, you won't know which strike that hits you is going to be the one that finishes you so why not try not to get shot?

Better to have another option if plan A doesn't work. Wouldn't you agree?

Definitely you should but why automatically go to plan B first?

Actually you won't need to try if you learn how to fight from that range. You control the tempo, the positioning, and the momentum. So instead of having to fight some clown off of you, you simply gain the dominant position and get up, or maintain standing position while dominating him in a downed position. The best way to get off the ground is to control it.

That basically describes the same thing but in a different way. If you can do that in less than 30 seconds then good but the longer it takes the higher the chance you might get stomped on or lose your chance to get away. If you are in a sporting contest you can afford to take your time a bit

Additionally you do have a lot of mobility on the ground. You just need to learn how to move once you get there.

really? I find it easier to get away when I can run rather than trying to crawl or scoot along the ground.

 

[RTKDCMB]

. I know what they mean but you can "rob" a house your house was burglarized not robbed

May be robbed from?

 

[ballen0351]

May be robbed from?

Yes only people can be robbed. You can be robbed in your home but your home itself can't be. People call all the time and say their house was robbed while they were at work. Like I said I know what they are trying to tell me but the actual crime is a burglary.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Home or vehicle, parking lot, or dark ally what difference dose it make they are still being attacked and overwhelmed.

Personally if I was attacked I would rather it be in a location I am familiar with so that I would know what might be on hand to use as a weapon or which escape routes were where.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Yes only people can be robbed. You can be robbed in your home but your home itself can't be.

Unless your house is a person too.

http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/3263_1.jpg

 

[ballen0351]

Unless your house is a person too.

http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/3263_1.jpg

Anyone willing to rob that house can keep what they get

 

[Hanzou]

But not what I was getting at.

You said if the person is bigger and stronger you hit harder. That's force on force. A contest of strength against a bigger and stronger opponent is a fool's errand.

And if you apply a grappling hold and he is still pulverizing you. Same question.

Please explain how someone can pulverize you from an inferior position. Further, if I have someone in a hold, let's say a guillotine choke from guard, how exactly is he going to pulverize me with his head, neck, hips, and spine completely under my control?

If you do not have good defense that is what you would end up doing. Striking is like Russian Roulette, you won't know which strike that hits you is going to be the one that finishes you so why not try not to get shot?

No, that's what you end up doing if your strikes aren't doing significant enough damage. Since we're talking about someone bigger and stronger than you, that's a distinct possibility.

Definitely you should but why automatically go to plan B first?

I never said go to plan B first. I'm saying that you're TKD, and Bjj compliments TKD very well. Your strikes fail, and you can't get away, take him down. Your strikes do great but not enough to finish him off and he decides to take you down, it's all good. For me, Bjj is plan A, for you, it could be plan B. My point is that the ground isn't a range you want to ignore for superficial reasons.

I have a black belt in karate. You think I'm going to abandon my karate background if I'm fighting for my life? No way. I have both karate and Bjj in the toolbox, and I will use both. They compliment each other, and fill each other's holes quite well.

That basically describes the same thing but in a different way. If you can do that in less than 30 seconds then good but the longer it takes the higher the chance you might get stomped on or lose your chance to get away. If you are in a sporting contest you can afford to take your time a bit

You'd be surprised how quickly a person can get taken down, controlled, and put to sleep. Yes, all of that can happen in under 30 seconds. It's only prolonged if you're dealing with someone a LOT stronger than you, or an experienced grappler.

really? I find it easier to get away when I can run rather than trying to crawl or scoot along the ground.

We don't crawl or scoot my friend. There's a reason we call it "rolling".

 

[RTKDCMB]

You said if the person is bigger and stronger you hit harder. That's force on force. A contest of strength against a bigger and stronger opponent is a fool's errand.

Still not what I am getting at. Where you hit is more important than how hard you hit. If you hit a larger opponent in the same vital spot as a smaller opponent then it requires more force to have the same effect for the larger opponent than it does for the smaller person, all other things being equal, that's just physics. Punch a 50kg jockey and a 150kg bodybuilder in the temple with the exact same punch and which one do you think will have the greater effect?

Please explain how someone can pulverize you from an inferior position. Further, if I have someone in a hold, let's say a guillotine choke from guard, how exactly is he going to pulverize me with his head, neck, hips, and spine completely under my control?

Please explain where you get the 'inferior position" from? I did not mention it. What if he is out-grappling you? How can someone pulverize you when you are hitting him in his vital spots and defending his strikes?

No, that's what you end up doing if your strikes aren't doing significant enough damage. Since we're talking about someone bigger and stronger than you, that's a distinct possibility.

This reminds me of the video with the security guard trading punches with the thug, which is not an effective way to deal with someone bigger and stronger than you.

I never said go to plan B first. I'm saying that you're TKD, and Bjj compliments TKD very well. Your strikes fail, and you can't get away, take him down. Your strikes do great but not enough to finish him off and he decides to take you down, it's all good. For me, Bjj is plan A, for you, it could be plan B. My point is that the ground isn't a range you want to ignore for superficial reasons.

I have a black belt in karate. You think I'm going to abandon my karate background if I'm fighting for my life? No way. I have both karate and Bjj in the toolbox, and I will use both. They compliment each other, and fill each other's holes quite well.

Unless that is an area which you believe you have overwhelming superiority, going to the ground in a self defence situation is far down the list of desirable outcomes. There are ways you get someone on the ground without going down there yourself. No one is ignoring the ground range, it is just not the primary focus of some arts. TKD has more than just striking in it, grappling is a large part, including ground defense.

You'd be surprised how quickly a person can get taken down, controlled, and put to sleep. Yes, all of that can happen in under 30 seconds. It's only prolonged if you're dealing with someone a LOT stronger than you, or an experienced grappler.

Probably not as quick as getting knocked out with the right strike.

We don't crawl or scoot my friend. There's a reason we call it "rolling".

Can you roll faster than you can run, I know I can't.

 

[Steve]

Still not what I am getting at. Where you hit is more important than how hard you hit. If you hit a larger opponent in the same vital spot as a smaller opponent then it requires more force to have the same effect for the larger opponent than it does for the smaller person, all other things being equal, that's just physics. Punch a 50kg jockey and a 150kg bodybuilder in the temple with the exact same punch and which one do you think will have the greater effect?

Please explain where you get the 'inferior position" from? I did not mention it. What if he is out-grappling you? How can someone pulverize you when you are hitting him in his vital spots and defending his strikes?




This reminds me of the video with the security guard trading punches with the thug, which is not an effective way to deal with someone bigger and stronger than you.



Unless that is an area which you believe you have overwhelming superiority, going to the ground in a self defence situation is far down the list of desirable outcomes. There are ways you get someone on the ground without going down there yourself. No one is ignoring the ground range, it is just not the primary focus of some arts. TKD has more than just striking in it, grappling is a large part, including ground defense.





Probably not as quick as getting knocked out with the right strike.



Can you roll faster than you can run, I know I can't.

A couple of assumptions being made I'm not sure I agree with. One is that striking is going to be plan a. That's a tactical decision and I can envision situations where it may be wiser to control the bad guy than to hit him.

Second, if you are an untrained grappler, and your opponent is bigger and stronger, you are pretty much ensuring you will be in an inferior position. Training may not guarantee a superior position, but not training is pretty much guaranteeing an inferior one.

Regarding a choice to go to the ground, you may be right. But one may not have a choice.

I have a related question for ballen and the other Leo. How common is date rape, marital rape and other situations like this? I insisted my daughter take 2 years of bjj. She didn't really enjoy it, but understood why it was helpful. Imy thought is that I'm more interested in her being able to control one stupid teenage boy than a gang of ninja in a dark alley.

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[KydeX]

I have a related question for ballen and the other Leo. How common is date rape, marital rape and other situations like this? I insisted my daughter take 2 years of bjj. She didn't really enjoy it, but understood why it was helpful. Imy thought is that I'm more interested in her being able to control one stupid teenage boy than a gang of ninja in a dark alley.

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This I totally agree with. For rape defense, BJJ must be the ultimate martial art in my mind.

 

[ballen0351]

I have a related question for ballen and the other Leo. How common is date rape, marital rape and other situations like this? I insisted my daughter take 2 years of bjj. She didn't really enjoy it, but understood why it was helpful. Imy thought is that I'm more interested in her being able to control one stupid teenage boy than a gang of ninja in a dark alley.

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That's the most common date rape out numbers Stanger rape by far. I don't know actual figures I'm sure they are out there somewhere. But In my personal experience I'd say for every stranger rape I've dealt with I've felt with 10 where the victim knows the attacker either a date rape or ex boyfriend or ex husband is the most common. Sadly most of these types the woman wouldn't fight back anyway regardless of training

 

[Hanzou]

Still not what I am getting at. Where you hit is more important than how hard you hit. If you hit a larger opponent in the same vital spot as a smaller opponent then it requires more force to have the same effect for the larger opponent than it does for the smaller person, all other things being equal, that's just physics. Punch a 50kg jockey and a 150kg bodybuilder in the temple with the exact same punch and which one do you think will have the greater effect?

Thanks for the clarification. You didn't mention any of that the first few times around.

My question to you would be this; Do you think striking someone in "vital spots" is a high percentage method of disabling someone?

Please explain where you get the 'inferior position" from? I did not mention it. What if he is out-grappling you? How can someone pulverize you when you are hitting him in his vital spots and defending his strikes?

You stated that I'm applying a grappling hold and he's still pulverizing me. If I'm applying an effective grappling hold, then that implies that I'm in a superior position, as indicated in the picture I posted. There's very few situations where I would attempt a hold/lock/choke in an inferior position.

As for someone out-grappling me, that's always a possibility. However, I'd put more money on someone being able to out-strike me, than being able to out grapple me, so for me its my plan A. Your personal mileage may vary.

As to your question, that's easy;

1. You miss./ He has good defense.
2. You don't hit the vital spot straight on.
3. His blows penetrate your defenses.

Again, you're trading blows with a physically superior opponent.

Unless that is an area which you believe you have overwhelming superiority, going to the ground in a self defence situation is far down the list of desirable outcomes. There are ways you get someone on the ground without going down there yourself. No one is ignoring the ground range, it is just not the primary focus of some arts. TKD has more than just striking in it, grappling is a large part, including ground defense.

You mean ground defense like punching someone in the nuts while they're on top of you, or trying to scratch out their eyes while they have you in the headlock on the ground?

Would you be willing to share some of these ground defenses? I'd be very interested in hearing about them.

Probably not as quick as getting knocked out with the right strike.

But far more likely.

Can you roll faster than you can run, I know I can't.

I wasn't comparing it to running, I was comparing it to crawling and scooting.

 

[Hanzou]

This I totally agree with. For rape defense, BJJ must be the ultimate martial art in my mind.

Ironically, Guard resembles missionary position.

 

[KydeX]

Ironically, Guard resembles missionary position.

Exactly my point. So when the assailant thinks he's where he wants to be, he's in for a real surprise.

 

[Steve]

Ironically, Guard resembles missionary position.

Not technically ironic, but I do agree.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ironically, Guard resembles missionary position.

I would take this whole thread on a side track with that statement but I'd get reported to the mods way to many times for what I want to say so I'll only say thats why I don't like playing (rolling) on the ground with other guys

 

[Steve]

I would take this whole thread on a side track with that statement but I'd get reported to the mods way to many times for what I want to say so I'll only say thats why I don't like playing (rolling) on the ground with other guys

I think kman said recently, context matters quite a bit.


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