Irregularities in Kukkiwon Dan graduation exam

[puunui]

No Andy I could not find it either, I was sure it was in the previous one. Maybe they took it out and figured it was not impoortant anymore.

It was never in the Kukkiwon Rules and Regulations. I have every single printed version of the Kukkiwon Rules and Regulations.

 

[terryl965]

It was never in the Kukkiwon Rules and Regulations. I have every single printed version of the Kukkiwon Rules and Regulations.

Ok Glen so you have all the previous one's, like I said I thought they had that rule or somebody probaly told me that all paperwork must be in before issueing certificates. You know some of us are not as perfect as you and those awesome people you stay around. J.K.

 

[terryl965]

The Kukkiwon expects you to treat your students with kindness and understanding that we are all human, just like how they would treat you. So if for some reason you needed a ONE DAY extension for the submission of your high dan thesis, then they would understand that and treat you with kindness by giving you that extension. What the Kukkiwon wouldn't expect you to do is see someone else getting a ONE DAY extension and then using that as some sort of accusatory weapon to be hurled at the Kukkiwon.

I do treat all my student with the respect and kindness every single human being deserves. I am not about putting blame any where like I said I thought it said that or somebody told me that once.

 

[puunui]

I do treat all my student with the respect and kindness every single human being deserves. I am not about putting blame any where like I said I thought it said that or somebody told me that once.

What about this, which is the second post in this thread?

I love it more bad news,man TKD is killing itself. With the KKW, WTF instructor that cheat, lie and steal. All I can say is do we have any Intrigity left at all.

 

[troubleenuf]

It seems a little "strange" to me that both Sang Lee and Dr. Kim were both "misunderstood" and if we only would know the truth about them we would think differently. Ist the fact that both were doing pretty much the same thing and were caught at it tell you something? I mean you can ignore some things, you can overlook others but Im not sure how you can use the same excuse over again when in one case the person was ousted from his position and in the other he was sent to jail. It seems to me that maybe the "perfect" people you have chosen to be around are only that perfect because you choose to ignore the imperfections.

We already discussed President Kim's situation, and I don't feel like explaining again. There is way more to it than what you are stating, but for some reason, I don't think you are interested in it other than what you have stated above. I will say this, that I actually know Dr. Kim, and he is perhaps one of the most articulate, intelligent and visionary person that I have ever met, in Taekwondo or out. Even today, when he walks into a room, all eyes immediately turn to him, and when he speaks, you cannot help but want to listen to every word that comes out of his mouth. I am sorry that you have never had the opportunity to get to know him other than through hearsay. By the way, if you ask anyone in Korea today, republican or democrat, they will tell you that the charges against Dr. Kim were false, and that it was perhaps the biggest mistake that Korea ever made when the opposing political party in power went after him in the way that they did, for doing exactly what the previous administration instructed him to do.

 

[terryl965]

What about this, which is the second post in this thread?

OK puunui lets go though this one more time for you: The top statement came second and I do treat everyone with the respect they deserve. I did not say I respect every single person equalily, I said what the deserve! When it comes to orgs. when they let instructors, Master's and GrandMasters to do as they wish without any concoquences than I blame the org not the person in charge. Most orgs have a chain of command and the head of said org may not know every little thing that goes on with every single member. That is why we should have better reps out there making sure the bylaws and rules are being followed.

Respect is always given, even for those that are crooks, criminals and liars. Does not mean I need to like every little thing that they do.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Originally Posted by puunui

We already discussed President Kim's situation, and I don't feel like explaining again. There is way more to it than what you are stating, but for some reason, I don't think you are interested in it other than what you have stated above. I will say this, that I actually know Dr. Kim, and he is perhaps one of the most articulate, intelligent and visionary person that I have ever met, in Taekwondo or out. Even today, when he walks into a room, all eyes immediately turn to him, and when he speaks, you cannot help but want to listen to every word that comes out of his mouth. I am sorry that you have never had the opportunity to get to know him other than through hearsay. By the way, if you ask anyone in Korea today, republican or democrat, they will tell you that the charges against Dr. Kim were false, and that it was perhaps the biggest mistake that Korea ever made when the opposing political party in power went after him in the way that they did, for doing exactly what the previous administration instructed him to do.

It seems a little "strange" to me that both Sang Lee and Dr. Kim were both "misunderstood" and if we only would know the truth about them we would think differently. Ist the fact that both were doing pretty much the same thing and were caught at it tell you something? I mean you can ignore some things, you can overlook others but Im not sure how you can use the same excuse over again when in one case the person was ousted from his position and in the other he was sent to jail. It seems to me that maybe the "perfect" people you have chosen to be around are only that perfect because you choose to ignore the imperfections.

I just can't help but see this pattern repeat itself as well.

It is the responsibility of the teacher or organization to act responsibly, fair and without bias. But I would suggest that the student or organizational member also has a responsibility to speak out if and when something that is unfair, illegal, dishonorable or disrespectful has occurred. To turn a blind eye or white-wash over persistent problems or repeated transgressions is in effect to condone those wrong actions. Perhaps that is one very good reason for message boards such as this, the word can be spread on a global basis. The bottom line is that many organizations, such as the KKW operate on money. If members of those organizations see repeated problems, unfair practices or whatever then it is an easy matter to express dissatisfaction by withholding funds. Let's face it, money talks and I've seen positive results with boycotts. Not making the suggestion to boycott the KKW. But it is worth bringing up as a tool for those using the KKW as their GA if and when if becomes necessary. Look how many people use this and other MA boards. Now imagine how many fellow students/instructors they have contact with. Not just locally but globally. A mass email barrage discussing dissatisfaction can also work well. Again, not suggesting any of this for this particular issue, but it just seems like perhaps even 'mole hills' add up to mountains.

I mentioned in another thread that although the KKW has millions of Dan holders, a very large percentage are in Korea itself, presumably mostly school children. Just using the 2001 numbers, 2.7 million of the 2.9 million Dan holders are inside Korea. Translate that to 2011 numbers, I doubt the % has changed all that much. And I don't know, but I would doubt that Korean school children that reach BB in about a year are charged the same amount of money as students in other countries. Again, I don't know...but I would doubt it. If that is the case, outside of Korea contributes perhaps the lion's share of income for the KKW? Once again, I don't know but it would be interesting to know the numbers. So the bottom line is people do have means to effect meaningful change if and when it is deemed necessary.

With respect.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

OK puunui lets go though this one more time for you: The top statement came second and I do treat everyone with the respect they deserve. I did not say I respect every single person equalily, I said what the deserve! When it comes to orgs. when they let instructors, Master's and GrandMasters to do as they wish without any concoquences than I blame the org not the person in charge. Most orgs have a chain of command and the head of said org may not know every little thing that goes on with every single member. That is why we should have better reps out there making sure the bylaws and rules are being followed.

Respect is always given, even for those that are crooks, criminals and liars. Does not mean I need to like every little thing that they do.

Well said Terry. I actually think that if there was a large org that actaully set standards and then had reps go around and actaully monitor what was going on to keep it consistent then I would be the first to join that org. But its hard for me when I constantly hear people telling me that I should be pat of the kukkiwon because they have standards and consistency and that it adds credibility to your rank, but then I keep reading about the inconsistencies and lack of standards and more importantly a lack of these standards actually being overseen to check that everyone abides by them. I actaully take great pride in the fact that anyone with a black belt in our club has undergone the exact same requirements to reach that level, theres no 'favours' or exceptions to the rule, the rules are hard and fast, and we have reps go around to make sure the exact same curriculum is taught in the same way from one club to another. Its just such a shame that the 'supposed' biggest and most successful tkd org cant do the same to bring more credibility to itself, because any business anywhere can set standards, but if those standards arent monitored and scrutinized to the letter, than those standards are not worth the paper they are written on. After all, if you want to talk the talk, you better be able to walk the walk.