Iowa Caucus...

[Cruentus]

It looks like Kerry took the Caucus in Iowa, leading up tp the New Hampshire primary.

Any thoughts on this subject?

Hey Bushites: which democrate do you think Bush would have the best chance of beating in the general election (who is still running in the dem. primary)?

:argue: :duel:

 

[OULobo]

Interesting outcome. Everyone thought Dean was gonna take it, but instead he got pounded. It's too bad Gephart couldn't pull a better showing. I like some of his ideas. I'm not sure I trust Kerry yet. Too much money in his background. Edwards' showing made me look at him a little more seriously, something I hadn't done before. I think the event definitly shook up the race, but Clark is still out there as a wild card that will have an impact.

 

[Makalakumu]

I would say, don't count Dean out yet. That scream of his is getting him lots of attention and much of it positive. And Clark is more then a wild card.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
I would say, don't count Dean out yet. That scream of his is getting him lots of attention and much of it positive. And Clark is more then a wild card.

Dean?

Yes but did you see his "consession speech"?

Can you say WWE wrestler? I was waiting for him to add "snap into a slim jim" or "I ain't got time to bleed" after rattling off the list of states he's going to "take" in the primaries.

His public persona turns off a lot of people. He comes off as really arrogent and oftentimes angry when he is in front of a crowd. Because he lost the Caucus, his speech should have been more congratulatory to the other canidates then it was. I think he lost some votes after that incident.

Regardless, I agree that Dean is by no means out yet. The causus is only an indicator of what the upper level party members think, which has no real correlation as to how the public will vote in the primaries. I know that at least in a few states before Iowa, Dean was a favorite.

Personally, I don't want Dean to be our choice, and it isn't because I don't like him. I think he looks very good on paper, almost better then my pick (General Clark) when it comes to issues. Yet, I think that if Dean is our pick, we will have a VERY difficult time taking the whitehouse from Bush, which is my main concern at this point. I just think that Dean comes off insincere, arrogent, angry, untrustworthy, and like a 'loose cannon' sometimes, which will turn people off to voting for him. The republicans WANT Dean to get picked by the Dems, according to conservative analysts. Bottom line: for Dean to win, the general public, many moderate republicans included, would REALLY have to hate Bush. I am just not confident that people hate him THAT much.

I was kind of glad to see that Kerry won in Iowa, and I am starting to rethink him as a canidate. I think that Bush's worst nightmare for 2004 would be Kerry or Clark. Their military experience alone completely trumps any tactics by the the Bush administration regarding the war, foriegn policy, and security. THis is huge. On the domestic front, Bush will argue that medicare is taking care of seniors, tax cuts have boosted the economy, and that his new Minimum wage and green card laws are somehow good for working america. All of these can be easily rebuttled except for the tax cut arguement (because the issue will be difficult to understand for the public, yet it can be easily stalemated because of this), plus there are many shortcomings and empty promises that can be brought to the table ranging from education to environment to weapons of mass destruction. If Kerry or Clark are the pick, all they have to do is out argue on the domestic issues to the satisfaction of the public, and they have the election in the bag.

We'll have to see what happends in the next few primaries!!

PAUL

 

[Cruentus]

The only real reasons Clark may have trouble is A. his lack of experience in politics added with his refusal to be a puppet for any political party means that he hasn't developed the relationship with the democratic party yet to be "the dems choice", and B. he has very little money to support the primary race.

Unfortunatily, these 2 choices alone may cost him the primary. If we actually had campaign finance reform taking $$ out of the equation, I gaurantee that clark would seem a lot further ahead.

PAUL

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by PAUL
Can you say WWE wrestler?

Perhaps the WWE style is just was the limp wristed liberals need!

I thought it was fiery and, if anything, Dean has provided a contrast to Bush and the other candidates have followed suit. I would say the man is responsible for dragging the Dems more toward the left. I hope Clark is our man, though. The whole skull and bones connection with Kerry and Bush would provide the conspiracy theorists with way too much ammo. Hell, it already is!

 

[redfang]

Go Kucinich!!

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by redfang
Go Kucinich!!

I second that.

 

[Cruentus]

Anything along the lines of Clark, Kerry, or Edwards I think would be most difficult for Bush to handle. I like Dean on paper, yet his personality is a problem. I like Kucinich a lot, and I think he has a lot of innovative ideas, yet I think that some of these will be seen as too liberal. That, added with his personality (very introverted) could cause a problem for him if he was to go against Bush.

I think we will be in good shape with a Kerry Clark ticket, or Kerry edwards, or Edwards Clark...it will be neat to see what combonation we will be left with when this is all over.

 

[michaeledward]

Originally posted by redfang
Go Kucinich!!

Third!

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by redfang
Go Kucinich!!

I can't believe someone from Cleveland actually thinks Dennis is a good idea. He's a fine representative, but he's no leader. He drove the city to default when he was mayor.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by OULobo
I can't believe someone from Cleveland actually thinks Dennis is a good idea. He's a fine representative, but he's no leader. He drove the city to default when he was mayor.

The city went into default because he wouldn't sell off the city works to private business. Now, the people of Cleveland think that Kucinich did a great thing for them.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by upnorthkyosa
The city went into default because he wouldn't sell off the city works to private business. Now, the people of Cleveland think that Kucinich did a great thing for them.

As someone who lives in Cleveland, I can safely say that is debatable. There were other options available to going into default.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Without necessarily supporting Kucinich, I'd point out that out here in California, we privatized the electric companies. Anybody wanna guess what happened to supplies and prices within two years? Curiously enough, what happened was exactly what all them nay-sayers, environmentalists, public advocacy groups, and quasi-socialists predicted....

Good for Dennis. Nice to know that SOMEBODY hasn't yet forgotten that we own our resources, not corporations....

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Without necessarily supporting Kucinich, I'd point out that out here in California, we privatized the electric companies. Anybody wanna guess what happened to supplies and prices within two years? Curiously enough, what happened was exactly what all them nay-sayers, environmentalists, public advocacy groups, and quasi-socialists predicted....

Good for Dennis. Nice to know that SOMEBODY hasn't yet forgotten that we own our resources, not corporations....

Warning wry comment ahead:

Right, cause Cleveland electric companies are well known all across the eastern seaboard now for their efficiency and quality of service.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by OULobo
Warning wry comment ahead:

Right, cause Cleveland electric companies are well known all across the eastern seaboard now for their efficiency and quality of service.

lol

Shhhh! Weren't we supposed to blame that one on Canada?!

It sounds like Kusinich was between a rock and a hard place regarding the issue. I agree that privatizing was probably not a good long term answer.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Had rolling blackouts? 10%-200% price increases? Indictments and suits for price gouging?

 

[OULobo]

I have to admit that I had written off Dennis on past/current (he is still my rep in congress) experiences and certain key issues, but this conversation and Paul's recent change of heart on gun issues motivated me to re-examine my opinions and futher research the candidates. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[michaeledward]

I was always in favor of the NAFTA thing, especially when democrats like Gephardt (?) were dissing it. But I just reviewed a series of articles that show that 10 years into NAFTA, it really has been a disaster for all the people, although it has been a great thing for the business world.

The more I look at his proposals, the better I think it looks. While I don't think he has much of a chance to actually BE president, it will be nice if he can accumulate a number of delegates for some influence at the convention.

 

[MisterMike]

Blecchhh!! Gephart. Does anyone see the resemblence?

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Studio/2683/images/hopper.gif

http://www.sbdems.org/images/Gephardt.jpeg

It's the eyes!