interesting article about teaching

[donald1]

seems different but interesting...
http://www.karatebyjesse.com/how-to-memorize-remember-karate-techniques-moves/

 

[tshadowchaser]

interesting ideas but I think practicing helps just as much and if you dont have time or willnot make time to practice then why study

 

[Blindside]

I guess I am fine with whatever means helps a student learn, certainly in kenpo the names of the techniques were designed to provide a mental image of what the movement of the technique is supposed to look like. But if kata is supposed to incorporate visualization of technique application, then making up a story to get the choreography down seems a little counter-productive. Visualization of application is such a powerful mental tool it seems like a waste of time and effort to have to make up a story and then re-establish whatever the "real story" is. If the purpose is just to be able to make your arms and legs move in the appropriate direction, fine, but that isn't the point of kata, at least not how I was taught.

 

[K-man]

To me, learning a kata like that is totally wrong. If you are working with kata as a choreographed sequence then ok, visualise keys and castles and what ever you like. If you are learning kata for the reason it was designed why wouldn't you imagine (visualise) doing what the kata is designed to do? That is hurt people. :idunno:

So, if I look at Gekisai kata as an example. What makes more sense to you as a martial artist?

1. Get your key out of your pocket, step forward with the right foot, turn to the left and tap the Joker on the forehead with your left fist. Now step and put the key in his mouth. Now put your gear down and unlock the door.

Mmm! Is that working for you?

Now I'll try a different approach.
If you want the simple form.

2. Turn to the left, upper 'block'. Step right deep stance, upper punch. Step back lower stance, lower 'block'.

Or, how hard can it be once you know the basic names.

3. Turn to the left, left sanchin dachi, left jodan uke. Step forward right zenkutsu dachi, right jodan uke. Step back shiko dachi, gedan barai.

Then ...


4. An attacker is closing in and he jabs with the left and has the right cocked. You move right, off the line to allow him to pass. You parry with the right hand and trap his upper arm with your left as you move in and punch him with the right fist on the side of his head. Left arm across his face, step back and pull him down in front of you.

I start with 2, they graduate to 3 then once they have the basic movement, I encourage 4 to achieve a reality based performance of the kata.

I'm sorry, keys and locks and castles and dragons, jokers and six packs just don't do it for me.
:asian:

 

[jks9199]

I think the use of classic memory tricks may help some students... but I'd say that understanding the moves will do more to help them. I generally teach a basic application or story for each set or sequence, rather than simply teaching rote moves. I've found that it helps many students to see what's happening rather than merely do motions. For example, our first form starts from a left foot forward stance. You step forward, blocking high, then counter punch. I could teach that to a student as "Full step/rising block, pivot/straight punch." Or I could explain that their opponent is punching at their face, and they're going to move forward, block, and counter punch. (Most students actually need both ways to explain it.)

 

[mook jong man]

In Wing Chun we take a different tact , during the Siu Lim Tao form we are not thinking of fighting at all , in fact it is the furthest thing from our mind.

We are concentrating on using the mind to initiate the movement of a joint , namely the elbow joint.
Whether that be driving the elbow forward for the punch , or raising and sinking the elbow for other movements.

 

[Carol]

The concern I have is that memorization is not the same as learning. Mnemonics are a memorization technique.

There is a time for memorization, sure. If you are employed by someone named (say) Mr. or Ms. Papadimitopoulos, then certainly its important to memorize how they spell (and pronounce) their name. But learning goes deeper than that as it implies concepts that one can use independently.

I can see the use of creative mnemonics being useful in some situations, especially teachers who have students that vary widely in terms of ability. However, I'd also be concerned about the use of mnemonics being too gimmicky and taking away from actually teaching the concepts.

 

[donald1]

interesting ideas but I think practicing helps just as much and if you dont have time or willnot make time to practice then why study

true, practice is probably how i learned most of my training. still something i would have never thought about...

 

[donald1]

To me, learning a kata like that is totally wrong. If you are working with kata as a choreographed sequence then ok, visualise keys and castles and what ever you like. If you are learning kata for the reason it was designed why wouldn't you imagine (visualise) doing what the kata is designed to do? That is hurt people. :idunno:

So, if I look at Gekisai kata as an example. What makes more sense to you as a martial artist?

1. Get your key out of your pocket, step forward with the right foot, turn to the left and tap the Joker on the forehead with your left fist. Now step and put the key in his mouth. Now put your gear down and unlock the door.

Mmm! Is that working for you?

Now I'll try a different approach.
If you want the simple form.

2. Turn to the left, upper 'block'. Step right deep stance, upper punch. Step back lower stance, lower 'block'.

Or, how hard can it be once you know the basic names.

3. Turn to the left, left sanchin dachi, left jodan uke. Step forward right zenkutsu dachi, right jodan uke. Step back shiko dachi, gedan barai.

Then ...


4. An attacker is closing in and he jabs with the left and has the right cocked. You move right, off the line to allow him to pass. You parry with the right hand and trap his upper arm with your left as you move in and punch him with the right fist on the side of his head. Left arm across his face, step back and pull him down in front of you.

I start with 2, they graduate to 3 then once they have the basic movement, I encourage 4 to achieve a reality based performance of the kata.

I'm sorry, keys and locks and castles and dragons, jokers and six packs just don't do it for me.
:asian:

i never tried it myself but i have considered trying to use that idea with some of the lower belts (very little considering but did think about it)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me, MA is to train on your body and not to think in your head. For some system, people may say that mind should lead the body. To me, I prefer the following result.

- Someone runs toward me in fast speed and tries to knock my head off.
- My leading leg kick out, stop his forward momentum, break his ribs, and knock him down.

When my opponent had dropped right under my knee, I suddenly realized that I just got into a fight. My leg was kicking out without the order from my brain. In other words, my body did the work and not my brain.

 

[K-man]

To me, MA is to train on your body and not to think in your head. For some system, people may say that mind should lead the body. To me, I prefer the following result.

- Someone runs toward me in fast speed and tries to knock my head off.
- My leading leg kick out, stop his forward momentum, break his ribs, and knock him down.

When my opponent had dropped right under my knee, I suddenly realized that I just got into a fight. My leg was kicking out without the order from my brain. In other words, my body did the work and not my brain.

That may well be the case but what you have written has nothing to do with learning names or learning kata. Hopefully all training is designed to allow us to respond to any threat without thinking.
:asian:

 

[donald1]

That may well be the case but what you have written has nothing to do with learning names or learning kata. Hopefully all training is designed to allow us to respond to any threat without thinking.
:asian:

sometimes i cant tell whats harder learning the forms or the names just last week at a seminar went over a bunch of white crane forms(mostly southern a few northern) and the names were confusing and sounded strangely similar

 

[K-man]

sometimes i cant tell whats harder learning the forms or the names just last week at a seminar went over a bunch of white crane forms(mostly southern a few northern) and the names were confusing and sounded strangely similar

I have looked at some White Crane also. The forms are quite long and complex and although I would love to learn them, for me that would require a lot of time and mental effort. I have them on the 'future' shelf but I'm back studying my own Goju kata for the moment.
:asian: