Instructors, how do you defend against Sensei Seths side kick criticism?

[Acronym]

I happen to agree with him that the way we are taught side kicks in intermediate patterns are illogical.


The knee should not take a two directional route. This makes no sense. Advanced students obviously move freely and chamber whichever way they want, but this pathway remains in the patterns .....

Interestingly, I got flamed positing a side kick clip doing exactly what Sensei Seth is advocating...

I would like to hear how TKD instructors on this board defend the formal side kick chamber.

Please watch 2:43

then for a fuller analysis (with humor thrown in)

here
...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Interestingly, I got flamed positing a side kick clip doing exactly what Sensei Seth is advocating

Which side kick clip did you post?

 

[oftheherd11]

Personally I don't.

Any more than I would waste any more time with your threads.

You really need to get a life.

Don't you have anything worthwhile to talk to other people about? How wonderful if you could have adult conversations where useful information was exchanged.

Anyway, the best to you.

 

[Acronym]

One theory I have is that we do the up-chamber for bending ready stance in order for the student to work on balance, then when they apply it freely, the up chamber is removed.


Maybe that's what the original intention was?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

SIDEKICKS DONT WORK!

 

[CB Jones]

I happen to agree with him that the way we are taught side kicks in intermediate patterns are illogical.


The knee should not take a two directional route. This makes no sense. Advanced students obviously move freely and chamber whichever way they want, but this pathway remains in the patterns .....

Interestingly, I got flamed positing a side kick clip doing exactly what Sensei Seth is advocating...

I would like to hear how TKD instructors on this board defend the formal side kick chamber.

Please watch 2:43

then for a fuller analysis (with humor thrown in)

here
...

Is it a problem with the technique or his application of it?

My son's instructor's instructor was a professor in kinesiology and
wrote a dissertation about maximixing power and speed using karate techniques. His data supported the chamber.

So in the end, it's just different opinions.

 

[Buka]

Is it a problem with the technique or his application of it?

My son's instructor's instructor was a professor in kinesiology and
wrote a dissertation about maximixing power and speed using karate techniques. His data supported the chamber.

So in the end, it's just different opinions.

That must have been a great read.

All my advanced black belts sidekick a little differently than each other. But everyone of them can nail just about anybody with a sidekick.

 

[Acronym]

Is it a problem with the technique or his application of it?
.

Sensei Seth claims that the technique itself makes no sense because you are traveling up with the knee and then side ways, instead of linear right away. I first thought he was just trolling but he is for real. He actually talked about it with Stephen Thompson, and Thompson agrees with him.

The thought did cross my mind doing forms that it feels artificial... and of course when I side kick by pure instinct, I do not kick like that.

 

[CB Jones]

Sensei Seth claims that the technique in itself makes no sense because you are traveling up with the knee and then side ways, instead of sideways right away.

Clambering your kick allows you to load your hips and create hip rotation to drive you forward increasing acceleration and power.

Much like how pitchers will bring their leg up to a chambered position and many hitters will load their swing with a chambered leg before swinging....to create power and explosion through hip rotation.

So I don't see how it doesn't make sense. It does take some amount of development because you have to develop a certain amount of strength and flexibility in your hips.

Since pitchers don't have to worry about how long it takes to chamber....they will actually cross the foot of their chambered leg past their rear leg to create more drive via more hip rotation.

 

[paitingman]

One theory I have is that we do the up-chamber for bending ready stance in order for the student to work on balance, then when they apply it freely, the up chamber is removed.


Maybe that's what the original intention was?

My explanation would be something like this^^
Traditional vertical chamber does not lend itself to throwing side kick imo. There's definitely an adjustment you must make if you want to throw side kick from there, but maybe that was the point. Training to throw from an extreme position that does not lend itself to side kick and students would develop an understanding of the necessary adjustment and would help you throw it from various angles and positions.

You definitely wouldn't throw it like this in application. Naturally, I think most use whatever chamber they need that requires the least adjustment and just lets you get the kick off.

 

[Acronym]

My explanation would be something like this^^
Traditional vertical chamber does not lend itself to throwing side kick imo. There's definitely an adjustment you must make if you want to throw side kick from there, but maybe that was the point. Training to throw from an extreme position that does not lend itself to side kick and students would develop an understanding of the necessary adjustment and would help you throw it from various angles and positions.

You definitely wouldn't throw it like this in application. Naturally, I think most use whatever chamber they need that requires the least adjustment and just lets you get the kick off.

Yeah so it's a bit trollish for him to say that TaeKwonDo guys kick like that, like it's a rule. It's a form move, nothing else.

He did TKD a while so he should know better

 

[CB Jones]

He states the vertical position is to allow higher kicks and the horizontal position gives more pushing power with your butt muscles.

It think this is the misunderstanding of the reason and mechanics of the vertical chamber.

The vertical position allows for hip rotation and more acceleration to generate more power at impact. It requires good mechanics, strength, and hip flexibility but achieves more power.

You might be able to push harder with the horizontal but the vertical position can generate more impact.

 

[Acronym]

He states the vertical position is to allow higher kicks and the horizontal position gives more pushing power with your butt muscles.

It think this is the misunderstanding of the reason and mechanics of the vertical chamber.

The vertical position allows for hip rotation and more acceleration to generate more power at impact. It requires good mechanics, strength, and hip flexibility but achieves more power.

You might be able to push harder with the horizontal but the vertical position can generate more impact.

But nobody kicks the vertical way, do they? It's too telegraphed

 

[Acronym]

You might be able to push harder with the horizontal but the vertical position can generate more impact.

Scott Adkins disagrees and says that you lose momentum from vertical to horizontal chamber because you are changing direction

 

[CB Jones]

But nobody kicks the vertical way, do they? It's too telegraphed

No they do. That is the way my son school teaches and I see it a lot in competition.

When you develop the mechanics, strength and flexibility it's not that telegraphed. And thrown with a hard forward skip it can be brutal.

I've seen competitors knocked on their but with it. My son's instructor's broke a guy's arm who tried to block it once in competition.

You can also mix it up. My son will throw a couple hard sidekicks and then chamber but then come over the top with a jab and straight left hand. He will also throw a couple sidekicks then throw a hook kick to the head from that chamber.

It's also works well against shotokan fighters that like to blitz in behind the reverse punch if you time it right.

 

[Acronym]

No they do. That is the way my son school teaches and I see it a lot in competition.

When you develop the mechanics, strength and flexibility it's not that telegraphed. And thrown with a hard forward skip it can be brutal.

I've seen competitors knocked on their but with it. My son's instructor's broke a guy's arm who tried to block it once in competition.

You can also mix it up. My son will throw a couple hard sidekicks and then chamber but then come over the top with a jab and straight left hand. He will also throw a couple sidekicks then throw a hook kick to the head from that chamber.

It's also works well against shotokan fighters that like to blitz in behind the reverse punch if you time it right.

What about Adkins objection that you lose power/momentum by changing direction from vertical to horizontal?

 

[CB Jones]

What about Adkins objection that you lose power/momentum by changing direction from vertical to horizontal?

Watch the video again.

He turns his body away from the target first to create the hip rotation. He is just using a different mechanic to create more hip rotation.

And he even says he makes more into a back kick.

 

[Acronym]

Watch the video again.

He turns his body away from the target first to create the hip rotation. He is just using a different mechanic to create more hip rotation.

And he even says he makes more into a back kick.

I'm not talking about his kick, I'm talking about his analysis of the kick you argue for.

 

[CB Jones]

I'm not talking about his kick, I'm talking about his analysis of the kick you argue for.

Ok...but he isn't throwing a traditional side kick. He is throwing more of a hybrid back side kick which allows him to create more power.

You can't generate that hip rotation with a traditional sidekick from a horizontal chamber without that step back into that hybrid back side kick.

 

[CB Jones]

Again it's different opinions and philosophies and has different pros and cons.

My son's style uses the horizontal chamber side kick for quick light kicks, vertical chamber side kicks for more powerful kicks, and doesn't refer to Adkins kick as a side kick (it is referred to as a back side kick).