INDYFIGHTER
Purple Belt
I agree with that but even a light touch will leave you a little sore for a day. However if an instructor really stuck it to me I'd be upset as well.
Instructor hurt me with a pressure point to eye
- Thread starter angelmuffin
- Start date
I agree with that but even a light touch will leave you a little sore for a day. However if an instructor really stuck it to me I'd be upset as well.
Hapkid0ist
Yellow Belt
Eye or not, if it was an accident then I would let it go. Accidents happen all the time no matter how good you are or how long you have been training or teaching.
If it were indeed intentional, well that is another story and a serious one. That is a dangerous place to keep yourself. It is also assault, and immoral.
If it were indeed intentional, well that is another story and a serious one. That is a dangerous place to keep yourself. It is also assault, and immoral.
Last Fearner
2nd Black Belt
I know I am coming into this conversation a bit late, but I am going to respond specifically to you and your request, angel.
Quit this school immediately, and find another instructor!
The reason I say this is not because of what the instructor did, although I will address that as well. The reason I say to leave this school is because you have a poor relationship with this instructor, and apparently little respect for him.
This is what stands out to me from your initial post:
On the other hand. If you truly believe that he is a good instructor, and you can change your attitude, and opinion of him, if you learn to respect him 100% and never utter a negative comment such as "he did that because of his ego," or "he is pig headed," then you might have a good working relationship. This does not mean that he will not make mistakes, or that you will like everything about him, but you must have more respect for him than to say these kinds of things. They reveal an inner, latent personal conflict, and possibly some disrespect you have for him. Resolve this within yourself, or leave.
Now, on to the issue of the "eye-poke." I agree with most of the others here. First and foremost - - Get your Eye Checked by a Doctor immediately!! I have had experience with this issue, and while a sore eye might get better on its own, if you have a scratch or other problem, it could get much worse. An exam by an eye doctor (not advice from an internet Martial Artist) will ensure you are safe, and if treatment is needed, it might mean the difference between having serious problems later or not (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!)
Lastly, after more than 28 years teaching, demonstrating on students, and being the "victim" of many Grandmasters for "proving points," I have never had anyone intentionally poke me in the eye, and I would never do that to a student. There are options of different levels for "realistic" training, and adults can make that choice, but a student should be forewarned, and agree that training might become "rough." However, this is no excuse for placing a student's vision at risk.
Let me say it clearly . . . No instructor has the level of skill to attack an eye socket without risk of causing serious injury or blindness. For any instructor to apply enough pressure on your eye to cause pain, and say that he was in control, and would not hurt you because he knew what he was doing is a lie. If I demonstrate an eye attack, I tell the student to close their eye, then I place very light pressure on the surface of the eyelid to show how the technique is done. Never should there be force applied to this area in training.
Virtually every other area of the body can be demonstrated upon with some force to cause slight discomfort or pain that will subside if the instructor is skillful, and experienced in demonstrating, but accidents happen even to those areas. Slightly excessive contact by accident will occasionally result in minor injuries that heal. This can be expected, and is usually unavoidable in combat or self defense training, but the eyes are off limits due to the fact that you can not control the risk of injury, and you can not restore the sight once it is lost.
If pressure point attacks to the eyes are to be allowed in demonstrations, students and instructors should be responsible enough to divert the pressure to the cheek or forehead, and simulate the pressure to the eye. If strikes to the eyes, or "realistic self defense" pressure is to be applied, then eye protection should be worn (IE: safety glasses, or face shield).
Talking to your instructor about this, and expressing your concerns was good! The fact that your instructor apologized is important, and there would be no sense in remaining if he had not. However, if his statement that "he knew exactly what he was doing and knew he would not injury me" is any indication of his false sense of unrealistic self control, and the intention that he might do this again because he feels he was not wrong, then he is a dangerous instructor, and should be avoided unless you are willing to take the risks of eye injury or blindness.
For those of us who learned "old school" (myself included) and still teach some of our adult students "realistic self defense" with increased contact, there is never justification for absence of good common sense and reason when it comes to personal safety, and potentially permanent injury. Angel, if you resolve the respect issue I mentioned earlier, and your instructor clearly demonstrates that he understands his limits in risk management so that you can be assured he will not attack you in this manner again, then it is possible that you could benefit from his instruction. Otherwise, I recommend respectfully withdrawing, and relocating to another school. Others have given you similar advice here - - I suggest you seriously consider it!
Remember....
Chief Master D.J. Eisenhart
I am going to give you my professional advice...
Quit this school immediately, and find another instructor!
The reason I say this is not because of what the instructor did, although I will address that as well. The reason I say to leave this school is because you have a poor relationship with this instructor, and apparently little respect for him.
This is what stands out to me from your initial post:
Statements such as these tell me that you do not have the respect for this individual that a student should have for their teacher. No student of mine should ever feel this way about me (that is my goal as an instructor) and I would never train under someone with whom I felt as you have stated (been there, done that! Not good!). Therefore, you and your instructor would be best served if you parted ways presently.
On the other hand. If you truly believe that he is a good instructor, and you can change your attitude, and opinion of him, if you learn to respect him 100% and never utter a negative comment such as "he did that because of his ego," or "he is pig headed," then you might have a good working relationship. This does not mean that he will not make mistakes, or that you will like everything about him, but you must have more respect for him than to say these kinds of things. They reveal an inner, latent personal conflict, and possibly some disrespect you have for him. Resolve this within yourself, or leave.
Now, on to the issue of the "eye-poke." I agree with most of the others here. First and foremost - - Get your Eye Checked by a Doctor immediately!! I have had experience with this issue, and while a sore eye might get better on its own, if you have a scratch or other problem, it could get much worse. An exam by an eye doctor (not advice from an internet Martial Artist) will ensure you are safe, and if treatment is needed, it might mean the difference between having serious problems later or not (an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!)
Lastly, after more than 28 years teaching, demonstrating on students, and being the "victim" of many Grandmasters for "proving points," I have never had anyone intentionally poke me in the eye, and I would never do that to a student. There are options of different levels for "realistic" training, and adults can make that choice, but a student should be forewarned, and agree that training might become "rough." However, this is no excuse for placing a student's vision at risk.
Let me say it clearly . . . No instructor has the level of skill to attack an eye socket without risk of causing serious injury or blindness. For any instructor to apply enough pressure on your eye to cause pain, and say that he was in control, and would not hurt you because he knew what he was doing is a lie. If I demonstrate an eye attack, I tell the student to close their eye, then I place very light pressure on the surface of the eyelid to show how the technique is done. Never should there be force applied to this area in training.
Virtually every other area of the body can be demonstrated upon with some force to cause slight discomfort or pain that will subside if the instructor is skillful, and experienced in demonstrating, but accidents happen even to those areas. Slightly excessive contact by accident will occasionally result in minor injuries that heal. This can be expected, and is usually unavoidable in combat or self defense training, but the eyes are off limits due to the fact that you can not control the risk of injury, and you can not restore the sight once it is lost.
If pressure point attacks to the eyes are to be allowed in demonstrations, students and instructors should be responsible enough to divert the pressure to the cheek or forehead, and simulate the pressure to the eye. If strikes to the eyes, or "realistic self defense" pressure is to be applied, then eye protection should be worn (IE: safety glasses, or face shield).
Talking to your instructor about this, and expressing your concerns was good! The fact that your instructor apologized is important, and there would be no sense in remaining if he had not. However, if his statement that "he knew exactly what he was doing and knew he would not injury me" is any indication of his false sense of unrealistic self control, and the intention that he might do this again because he feels he was not wrong, then he is a dangerous instructor, and should be avoided unless you are willing to take the risks of eye injury or blindness.
For those of us who learned "old school" (myself included) and still teach some of our adult students "realistic self defense" with increased contact, there is never justification for absence of good common sense and reason when it comes to personal safety, and potentially permanent injury. Angel, if you resolve the respect issue I mentioned earlier, and your instructor clearly demonstrates that he understands his limits in risk management so that you can be assured he will not attack you in this manner again, then it is possible that you could benefit from his instruction. Otherwise, I recommend respectfully withdrawing, and relocating to another school. Others have given you similar advice here - - I suggest you seriously consider it!
Remember....
Good Luck!
Chief Master D.J. Eisenhart
A thousand `yeses' to Indyfighter's, Drac's and Last Fearner's last posts. LF's comment is the key here, that no instructor, no matter how good, has enough precision and knowledge of your particular anatomy to ensure that an actual strike to a place as vulnerable as your eye will do no permanent damage.
The best I would call it is very poor judgment. I'd go with LF's advice, if I were in your position. He's been doing this for a long time---you should take his experience seriously!
The best I would call it is very poor judgment. I'd go with LF's advice, if I were in your position. He's been doing this for a long time---you should take his experience seriously!
searcher
Senior Master
I will agree that Last Fearner is correct. My school tends to have some pretty brutal training that goes on, broken bones, some dislocations, tons of bruises, but these are things that will heal. When an instructor starts going after the eyes, ears, or genitalia, it changes things quickly from training to somethig else. You should get as far away from this guy as you can. Trust me when I say this you are going to become seriously damaged if you stay there. If you need help finding another school, lmk. We can help you find a different place that will teach you, not abuse you.
I agree searcher..Some of the LEO hand-to-hand classes I've attended have been BRUTAL and when I attend a seminar with Father Greek I can barely close my fist or raise my arms by the end of the day..NEVER have been poked in the eye by ANY trainer..
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I agree with Last Fearner post. I too come form old school and it could be painful but I have to agree with the points that Last Fearner made.
WAY back when I started my Sensei (Jujitsu) did have attacks to break locks that included the eyes, throat and bridge of the nose but he NEVER used force and in the case of the eyes he did not use direct contact either and any student that did not listen to him and did would likely end up in a friendly spare with him at the end of class. This generally meant you spent most of your time being thrown to the ground and laying on the ground, but you learned to listen and interestingly enough he never hurt anyone giving those lessons.
I am also likely in for some fairly brutal training here soon as well but I have complete respect for my Sifu and I trust his ability. I will likely be coming home from time to time quite sore but it is all part of the training. But my Sifu has great control and I doubt he would ever attack my eyes directly.
WAY back when I started my Sensei (Jujitsu) did have attacks to break locks that included the eyes, throat and bridge of the nose but he NEVER used force and in the case of the eyes he did not use direct contact either and any student that did not listen to him and did would likely end up in a friendly spare with him at the end of class. This generally meant you spent most of your time being thrown to the ground and laying on the ground, but you learned to listen and interestingly enough he never hurt anyone giving those lessons.
I am also likely in for some fairly brutal training here soon as well but I have complete respect for my Sifu and I trust his ability. I will likely be coming home from time to time quite sore but it is all part of the training. But my Sifu has great control and I doubt he would ever attack my eyes directly.
