In order for something to work...?

[drop bear]

I think I understand what you mean by being mechanical but if you are sitting on your attacker you have accomplished nothing.
How long can you sit on him? I hope your cell phone is in your hand while you're sitting on him because if he gets up he is going to kill you.

Trying to kill someone from there is just illogical. If you have been put down sat on and they have the good grace to not be elbowing your face to pieces. Give up. And for gods sake dont threaten to kill them.

I have seen to many people receive the ground and pound of their life because the could not acknowledge that they have lost.

 

[hoshin1600]

Trying to kill someone from there is just illogical. If you have been put down sat on and they have the good grace to not be elbowing your face to pieces. Give up. And for gods sake dont threaten to kill them.

I have seen to many people receive the ground and pound of their life because the could not acknowledge that they have lost.

Your choice of words is interesting to me. Why would you use the word "lost" as in someone lost the fight,,,when we are talking about violence and self defense? Did I not understand the OP? There is no winning or losing in self defense only survival maybe you could win the court case after...maybe.
Let's up the anti a bit and say the attacker just beat your wife unconscious and is coming at you with a knife with the intent to kill, and your going to sit on him and hope he just gives in? He knows he is looking at many years in prison, I don't think a little ground and pound is going to be what is most important on his mind.,
I'll prefer my intent thank you.

 

[Buka]

Not all chokes are brutal, but those same chokes are very effective.

Is that a quote from someone, or just you?

 

[Hanzou]

Is that a quote from someone, or just you?

Just me.

I guess it does have a philosophical tinge to it.

But yeah, some chokes are actually fairly gentle, and they put you right to sleep without you even realizing it.

To hell with Guillotines though! Also to hell with Guillotine night at the gym!!

 

[Steve]

Your choice of words is interesting to me. Why would you use the word "lost" as in someone lost the fight,,,when we are talking about violence and self defense? Did I not understand the OP? There is no winning or losing in self defense only survival maybe you could win the court case after...maybe.
Let's up the anti a bit and say the attacker just beat your wife unconscious and is coming at you with a knife with the intent to kill, and your going to sit on him and hope he just gives in? He knows he is looking at many years in prison, I don't think a little ground and pound is going to be what is most important on his mind.,
I'll prefer my intent thank you.

In the interest of keeping it real, homocides are a very small fraction of violent crimes (about 1.2% of all violent crime in 2013). And of those homocides, most (a touch under 80%) are by gun.

Statistically speaking per fbi.gov, even if you are one of the 350 or so per 100,000 who is a victim of violent crime, you are probably not in a fight such as is being discussed here, And even if you are, you probably aren't fighting for your life.

 

[Buka]

Just me.

I guess it does have a philosophical tinge to it.

But yeah, some chokes are actually fairly gentle, and they put you right to sleep without you even realizing it.

To hell with Guillotines though! Also to hell with Guillotine night at the gym!!

That's a great saying. I've already stolen it.

To hell with guillotines? Bite your tongue, blasphemer!

 

[Hanzou]

That's a great saying. I've already stolen it.

I think my new avatar is rubbing off on me.

To hell with guillotines? Bite your tongue, blasphemer!

The gi burns hurt like hell bro! Also big white belts get super spazzy with it and crank your neck when they first learn it.

 

[Buka]

I think my new avatar is rubbing off on me.



The gi burns hurt like hell bro! Also big white belts get super spazzy with it and crank your neck when they first learn it.

Never play cards with a guy called Doc, never eat at a place called Mom's, never sleep with anyone crazier than you and never, ever roll or spar with a big, new white belt.

 

[drop bear]

Your choice of words is interesting to me. Why would you use the word "lost" as in someone lost the fight,,,when we are talking about violence and self defense? Did I not understand the OP? There is no winning or losing in self defense only survival maybe you could win the court case after...maybe.
Let's up the anti a bit and say the attacker just beat your wife unconscious and is coming at you with a knife with the intent to kill, and your going to sit on him and hope he just gives in? He knows he is looking at many years in prison, I don't think a little ground and pound is going to be what is most important on his mind.,
I'll prefer my intent thank you.

You have to be able to use force proportionally. If I feel I need to lay waste to someone I can from there.

Or I can hold him for the cops

Or let him back up.

 

[hoshin1600]

In the interest of keeping it real, homocides are a very small fraction of violent crimes (about 1.2% of all violent crime in 2013). And of those homocides, most (a touch under 80%) are by gun.

Statistically speaking per fbi.gov, even if you are one of the 350 or so per 100,000 who is a victim of violent crime, you are probably not in a fight such as is being discussed here, And even if you are, you probably aren't fighting for your life.

So what your saying is that it probably will never happen to you so you don't train for it and percentage wise it would be a waste of time.

 

[DaveB]

UK crime statistics show most injuries (n relation to violence) are left side facial trauma, for the same reason (people being right handed)

Can you provide a link to those stats please? I work in crime statistics and would like to see what the data is like and it's sources.

 

[DaveB]

In order for something to work in a live situating i.e. the battlefield, or “the street” (So we are not talking competition/points scoring here, just to clarify). It has to fill two criteria:

Number one; it has to be simple.

The more complicated something is:-
• the more chance there is it will go wrong
• the less likely you are to pull it off
• the less likely you will be able to respond with it subconsciously
• fine motor skills are decreased during adrenal stress, leaving us with gross motor skills, meaning intricate or movements become more difficult, if not impossible.

Number two; it has to be brutal. An Indian burn isn’t going to pursued someone they no longer want to attack you. However if they are unconscious they can no longer attack you, if their arm is broken they can no longer hit you with it, etc etc, you get the idea.

So I am interested to see others think, so let me know :- what would you add to this list, what would you take away from this list?

As a set of personal choices or useful guidelines this is a good list. I would change the brutal bit as well though. Brutality must (by law) be directly proportional to the level of danger you feel you are in.

Also I would caveat simple with, "must be intensively trained!"

Having a cool mechanically effective kata application is great, but if you haven't put in the work, don't expect it to work (TM).

 

[Steve]

Snip

 

[Steve]

So what your saying is that it probably will never happen to you so you don't train for it and percentage wise it would be a waste of time.

Kind of. What I'm really saying is that it's all unlikely, so if you're trying to train for an unlikely, worst case situation, why presume your opponent is untrained? Everyone Whois training fighting for self defense is making assumptions about what may o may not actually happen and what's realistic, but it's all very unlikely. Just suggesting that the assumption that you are fighting for your life is probably not correct.

 

[Tgace]

If a technique CAN work is a different discussion from if a technique is LIKELY to work.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I would replace the word 'brutal' with 'effective'.

 

[Jenna]

Not all chokes are brutal, but those same chokes are very effective.

I think that is interesting point because of another implication.. for me in my art anyway, while there may in many techniques be an implicit "brutality" since that is the word @Paul_D used in op, that implicit brutality need not ALWAYS be called upon and can be ramped up or ramped down concomitant with the situation.. For me I like it best when every one walks away .. if I can also allow a person to save some face there is less likelihood they will seek a recompense, this was a too frequent occurrence where I used to live..

Interesting point though x

 

[drop bear]

Kind of. What I'm really saying is that it's all unlikely, so if you're trying to train for an unlikely, worst case situation, why presume your opponent is untrained? Everyone Whois training fighting for self defense is making assumptions about what may o may not actually happen and what's realistic, but it's all very unlikely. Just suggesting that the assumption that you are fighting for your life is probably not correct.

The question is what is the difference between submitting someone and crippling them?

 

[Buka]

The question is what is the difference between submitting someone and crippling them?

Dbear, I don't understand the question.

 

[drop bear]

Dbear, I don't understand the question.

But steve probably will.