I'm a new guy here...

[Subitai]

HI, I'm Onassis Parungao and it's been awhile since I joined a MA forum.

So hello and i hope to see / lurk and read somethings new. The internet is old enough martial arts wise that it seems like most things have been discussed or hashed over.

(But hey, you never know!! )

 

[Buka]

HI, I'm Onassis Parungao and it's been awhile since I joined a MA forum.

So hello and i hope to see / lurk and read somethings new. The internet is old enough martial arts wise that it seems like most things have been discussed or hashed over.

(But hey, you never know!! )

Welcome to Martial Talk, Subitai.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Welcome! What do you/have you trained?

 

[Subitai]

Welcome! What do you/have you trained?

I'm primarily Chinese Martial Arts Now... Hung Gar, Yang and Sun Tai Chi.

FMA, Judo and wrestling back in the day, plus I fought some MMA.

Everything is pretty chill now.

 

[marvin8]

HI, I'm Onassis Parungao and it's been awhile since I joined a MA forum.

So hello and i hope to see / lurk and read somethings new. The internet is old enough martial arts wise that it seems like most things have been discussed or hashed over.

(But hey, you never know!! )

Welcome! I enjoyed your interview with Jerry. Thanks.

Fight Commentary Chats
Nov 2, 2023

We talk to Onassis Parungao about his martial arts journey. What got him into martial arts? What happened in Ultimate Fighting Championship 7? What did he do after UFC 7? Where is O in his martial arts journey? We also talk about the Kungfu community and its evolution, since O is a Hung Gar representative. More conversations soon with this Filipino-American pioneer in the martial arts.

 

[Xue Sheng]

HI, I'm Onassis Parungao and it's been awhile since I joined a MA forum.

So hello and i hope to see / lurk and read somethings new. The internet is old enough martial arts wise that it seems like most things have been discussed or hashed over.

(But hey, you never know!! )

Welcome to MT

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Welcome to MartialTalk!

 

[Badhabits]

Welcome! Looking forward to hearing more about CMA.

 

[Brian King]

Welcome to martial talk. I enjoyed the pod cast.
Regards
Brian King

 

[JowGaWolf]

Welcome to Martial Talk. Sometimes we cover the same things that 's been discussed many times and sometimes we don't. I don't think I would have been in the groups for this long if everything was just a repeat of conversations from past years. I think focusing on application keeps everything new. Theory often gets old really quick.

 

[windwalker099]

Welcome to MT...
An interesting site, with many long time practitioners
covering a wide range of styles and interest.

 

[Gyakuto]

HI, I'm Onassis Parungao and it's been awhile since I joined a MA forum.

So hello and i hope to see / lurk and read somethings new. The internet is old enough martial arts wise that it seems like most things have been discussed or hashed over.

(But hey, you never know!! )

Welcome to the forum. It’s fantastic that you’ve entered a ‘martial arts biography’ to your profile as it helps to understand your perspective on things.

 

[Simfers]

Welcome to the carnival! Looks forward to reading your thoughts!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yang and Sun Tai Chi.

FMA, Judo and wrestling back in the day,

What do you think the difference between Taiji and Judo/wrestling?

 

[Subitai]

What do you think the difference between Taiji and Judo/wrestling?

Hey, I know that Name and Question rhythm. You're JOHN Wang, from Rum Soaked Fist aren't you? How's it going o'l buddy?

Anyway, i'll give you my take about your question:

I think I fell in love with Hung Style and Taiji because they both have some Stand up grapple methods (Taiji moreso IMO) and the ranges for what I like to do are very similar.

***** Do I go further on this intro thread or should I start a new one?

Anyway,
I know you're like me John, you like fighting or at least are the kind of MA that wants to apply. I respect that.

I would answer your question by pointing out a common goal... as it relates to fighting not just competition.

What is the worst thing that could be put in front of you (opponent wise) if you are Tai Chi and Judo? ( skip wrestling for a second )

answer: In the beginning stand up " IT'S SOMEONE LIKE MOHAMED ALI" Ie. " Float like a butterfly, sting.... " ( everyone knows the rest )

If you cannot close the gap, and or intercept, and or catch him, and or blend, and or take him down, and BLA BLA BLA.
****** There will be a strong possibility that said Mohamed Ali is able to stay on the outside and Pepper you with jabs until, you are so worn down that he can quickly finish with a cross or whatever. I'm talking about someone who is very athletic and quick on their feet. It is a nightmare scenario for any Traditional MA that thinks he can just step in the ring and apply the same way he does in the Kwoon or dojo.

When I spar stand up, I don't stay and trade with people (if I can help it) "trading" means you get some and I get some. I want to close to clinch or some other level of control AFAP. I'm pretty sure you feel the same way with Shuai Jow.

About takedowns, the real strong difference between the 3 are again, do you have a:
Stick point ? (are you touching or grabbing already)
- Taiji has no SHOT in the sense of a western style, ie. lower your level into and single or double leg. The pursuit is usually through what you contact and create some sort of bridge 1st...namely the arms somewhere. Then the set ups can lead to some nasty attacks and combos if you train your taiji that way. Most people are training health only.

- Judo has tons of sweeps, throws and takedowns, ect but to my knowledge most of those again require a set up with the arms or at least grabbing the legs. They once again do NOT lower their level (hips) the same way as western grappling does. Judo can grab anywhere even an ankle pick but usually the set up is via arms first. ALSO a GI really really helps for grab manipulations.

- Wrestling can shoot a takedown via a low drop position usually just out of arms length or closer. NO NEED OF ARMS CONNECTING! Sweeping low outside ankle picks are super fast and an effective way to scoop someone up and.... down. If i'm at the range most Taiji OR Judo is played up close in stand up, screw it ... lower my level and High Crotch lift that SOB straight up, turn and drop him on his head. Its a fight ender, i've done it at least 3 times in street fights growing up.

You and I have gone over this before, haha

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What is the worst thing that could be put in front of you (opponent wise) if you are Tai Chi and Judo?

Welcome to this forum. There is more "combat" discussion in this forum (It's just too much non-combat discussions in the other forum).

Taiji emphasizes on "water strategy". If you use "earth strategy" with strong defense and move in inch by inch, most Taiji people may have trouble to deal with you because

- Taiji guys don't like to attack first. But your inch by inch move in can hardly be called as "attack".
- There is no force that they can borrow from you.
- Taiji guy don't like to use force against force.
- ...

Those won't be any issue for Judo guys. Judo guys also like to borrow force. But they don't mind using force against force. In other words, Judo guys don't put physical limitation on themselves (such as never use brute force).

So, IMO, there is a big difference between Taiji (self restricted) and Judo (open mind).

 

[Stuarto]

Welcome Subitai

 

[marvin8]

Hey, I know that Name and Question rhythm. You're JOHN Wang, from Rum Soaked Fist aren't you? How's it going o'l buddy?

Anyway, i'll give you my take about your question:

I think I fell in love with Hung Style and Taiji because they both have some Stand up grapple methods (Taiji moreso IMO) and the ranges for what I like to do are very similar.

***** Do I go further on this intro thread or should I start a new one?

Anyway,
I know you're like me John, you like fighting or at least are the kind of MA that wants to apply. I respect that.

I would answer your question by pointing out a common goal... as it relates to fighting not just competition.

What is the worst thing that could be put in front of you (opponent wise) if you are Tai Chi and Judo? ( skip wrestling for a second )

answer: In the beginning stand up " IT'S SOMEONE LIKE MOHAMED ALI" Ie. " Float like a butterfly, sting.... " ( everyone knows the rest )

If you cannot close the gap, and or intercept, and or catch him, and or blend, and or take him down, and BLA BLA BLA.
****** There will be a strong possibility that said Mohamed Ali is able to stay on the outside and Pepper you with jabs until, you are so worn down that he can quickly finish with a cross or whatever. I'm talking about someone who is very athletic and quick on their feet. It is a nightmare scenario for any Traditional MA that thinks he can just step in the ring and apply the same way he does in the Kwoon or dojo.

When I spar stand up, I don't stay and trade with people (if I can help it) "trading" means you get some and I get some. I want to close to clinch or some other level of control AFAP. I'm pretty sure you feel the same way with Shuai Jow.

In sparring/fighting, one wants to listen and control their opponent from the furthest distance away, enter then finish. Ranges can be defined in various ways e.g., kicking, striking, wrestling and locking and/or safe zone, fight zone and borders.

“Boxing is the art of hitting your opponent with the maximum amount of leverage from the furthest distance possible while exposing the least of yourself.” — Kenny Weldon

About takedowns, the real strong difference between the 3 are again, do you have a:
Stick point ? (are you touching or grabbing already)

There is a point where both fighters can touch each other. However, there is another point before contact is made where one may listen and control their opponent. I have an advantage if I can listen and control you before the "stick point," get you double weighted then enter and finish.

In MMA, Tai Chi's fighting skills lure, listen, control and dissolve can be done without bridging ...

It's common for fighters to control their opponent from a distance without touch. These are soft skills using no force.

Per NTUMA, an example of ling kong jin is Michael Jordan controlling his opponent without touch...

NTUMA Martial Arts
Mar 2, 2021

Do you really have volley power??
(Click CC and set to English captions.)

Taichi Laboratory, Taichi In Science
Dec 15, 2022

Why we only see tai chi today without fighting ability? The following video is about the famous champion “Mike Tyson…” Don’t be misled by kung fu movies…

OK!!! What is relationship between counter punch and tai chi? Why I use so much time to explain it? The essence of tai chi is counter punch. Someone familiar with counter punch will not attack at any moment! Only attack when his enemy starts to attack.

Let’s see the following video. This is a move of tai chi. It's called Bang lang chue. You can see the person with black shorts [Lyoto Machida]. He does an empty skill (let his enemy lose control of this body) then fight back. This video is a very good expression of Yin Jin Ro Kong (empty skill). Through the video from beginning, you can see the value for Empty skill. Why tai chi teach people so hardly to practice empty skill? The above video shows you the answer. We empty the enemy (let him lose his balance control) with contact.

To create a good chance to do the counter punch at that moment, Tyson uses another way to empty his enemy "without" contact. Keep the distance. Use fast reaction ability of body to dodge enemy's attack. If dodging is success, it can create empty state of his enemy and attack at this moment. The way of tai chi to empty is contactness. We touch enemy's body and empty him. It needs unity and soft body.

Why Tyson chooses to use empty without contact? Because, empty with contact is more difficult. Once you have contact with your enemy, his power will affect your control to your body, you will use power passively. We will try to move our enemy with power by instinct. Try to move his body, let him loose control of his body ( fight fire with fire). But the result is opposite, we lose our control to body. This is what I mentioned before, the problem of "force bridge."

What makes counter punch so powerful is we let our enemy lose body control and have full control of our body at the same time. By this way, you can get the result "KO with one punch." Once you use power when contact happens, there is no tai chi at all.

Back to the original question, why tai chi can't be used to fight? The answer is easy. You don't have strong body to use tai chi. It's a kind of high difficulty skill to use. It depends on real fighting experience. The timing to use. Familiar to the move. The expectation is very high. To get the benefit of tai chi, the conclusion is there is no good or bad about the skill. A punch without any skill still can kill sb. There is no reason that tai chi doesn't work in fighting. The point is to understand the advantage and disadvantage of tai chi to get higher tai chi skill…

- Taiji has no SHOT in the sense of a western style, ie. lower your level into and single or double leg. The pursuit is usually through what you contact and create some sort of bridge 1st...namely the arms somewhere. Then the set ups can lead to some nasty attacks and combos if you train your taiji that way. Most people are training health only.

- Judo has tons of sweeps, throws and takedowns, ect but to my knowledge most of those again require a set up with the arms or at least grabbing the legs. They once again do NOT lower their level (hips) the same way as western grappling does. Judo can grab anywhere even an ankle pick but usually the set up is via arms first. ALSO a GI really really helps for grab manipulations.

- Wrestling can shoot a takedown via a low drop position usually just out of arms length or closer. NO NEED OF ARMS CONNECTING! Sweeping low outside ankle picks are super fast and an effective way to scoop someone up and.... down. If i'm at the range most Taiji OR Judo is played up close in stand up, screw it ... lower my level and High Crotch lift that SOB straight up, turn and drop him on his head. Its a fight ender, i've done it at least 3 times in street fights growing up.

You and I have gone over this before, haha

Your comparison may be an example of don't chase hands chase the center.