If you could ask an ancient martial arts warrior...

[Runs With Fire]

I ask everyone who stops in (not many make the trip) the same question "how do you like your coffee?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

People always make this assumption that skill goes upwards, when we dont actually know that for certain. We know technology goes upwards, but that doesnt always mean skill does. A simple example: quick math skills. Most people i know a generation ahead of me are better at math in their head, while people in my generation have trouble with basic addition/subtraction.

I would be interested in showing them what MA is like now, and see what they know that i dont. I would not make the presumption 'modern' is more effective off the bat.

 

[JR 137]

People always make this assumption that skill goes upwards, when we dont actually know that for certain. We know technology goes upwards, but that doesnt always mean skill does. A simple example: quick math skills. Most people i know a generation ahead of me are better at math in their head, while people in my generation have trouble with basic addition/subtraction.

I would be interested in showing them what MA is like now, and see what they know that i dont. I would not make the presumption 'modern' is more effective off the bat.

Fighters are fighters. Give a great pro boxer from 50 years ago access to today’s advances in training equipment and access to today’s knowledge of exercise physiology, and he’ll be just as great today. Sure the talent pool has increased, but so have their abilities.

Some of us romanticize the old-school MAists of the eras before us, others say the MA have evolved to the point where they’d be average at best today. I say fighting is still fighting, and true fighters are true fighters. True fighting hasn’t fundamentally changed. People still punch, kick, choke, throw, etc. It’s not like dodging a punch today is really any different than it was centuries ago; it’s not like punching someone is inherently different now than it’s been since the first person threw a punch. If you teleported and threw a punch at a Roman gladiator, do you think he wouldn’t know what to do? Do you think he would counter and return the favor in some truly unique way? He’d probably move out of the way and punch you back, or throw you, joint lock you, choke you, etc. If you tried a takedown, he’d respond like we do today. No different than what we do now.

The only thing that’s probably truly changed is our mindset. We haven’t grown extra limbs, nor heightened senses or anything else.

 

[JowGaWolf]

don’t know how we’re defining ancient,

Ancient = old enough to actually it in battle, village fights, etc. This would vary based on where the person lives in the world and at what period they lived in. Ancient was just the best way I could describe it without having a long drawn out explanation, so it will get you in the ball park lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I’ll go with any martial artist no longer alive that’s been written about

Nice one. I didn't even think about that. Lost fighting systems. Did they vanish because they were ineffective or it just wasn't promoted and passed on effectively. Definite makes me rethink my approach.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most people i know a generation ahead of me are better at math in their head, while people in my generation have trouble with basic addition/subtraction.

If you compare math from 1000 years ago to now you'll see great improvement. Not just with "new math," but applying "old math" in new ways. Some countries advance faster in math than others, but it's always improving.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you think he would counter and return the favor in some truly unique way?

Actually yes. I think he would counter in a unique way. I can show you examples of different ways to respond to a punch in everything from street fight to sports fighting.
Example here:

The way I counter isn't like this. Now you have 2 different ways to counter a punch. The next person that response will have a different way to deal with a punch. Some systems have different approaches to the parry and that approach may be influenced by what is expected to happen next. Moving back to get out of the way is a natural response, but how you move back and the way you move back can truly be different.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If you compare math from 1000 years ago to now you'll see great improvement. Not just with "new math," but applying "old math" in new ways. Some countries advance faster in math than others, but it's always improving.

Thats fair, bad example. But its not that way with everything, particularly skilled labor. Things arent always just on a continuous uphill climb, we just happen to perceive it that way. One of my old professors posited we like to do this, since it means we are always at the top.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thats fair, bad example. But its not that way with everything, particularly skilled labor. Things arent always just on a continuous uphill climb, we just happen to perceive it that way. One of my old professors posited we like to do this, since it means we are always at the top.

Math was the example you gave so I just followed up on the same example.
Today's wheel is better than it was 1000 years ago. Medicine is better than it was 1000 years ago. Homes for the most part are better than they were 1000 years ago. Human communication is much better than it was 1000 years ago. Our health is much better than it was 1000 years ago. Even though we have cut down a lot of trees, we have made better improvements to some environments than what they were 1000 years ago. We are able to grow food in areas that were actually desert areas. The flip side is that we produce more pollution and trash than ever before. Depending on which side you are on, more trash and more pollution may be an improvement. Today's "Trash Man" is better skilled than a "Trash Man" 1000 years ago. There have been stumbling blocks and in some cased animals and cultures have gone extinct but over all much has improved.

Many times the things that don't improve are things that eventually disappear.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Math was the example you gave so I just followed up on the same example.
Today's wheel is better than it was 1000 years ago. Medicine is better than it was 1000 years ago. Homes for the most part are better than they were 1000 years ago. Human communication is much better than it was 1000 years ago. Our health is much better than it was 1000 years ago. Even though we have cut down a lot of trees, we have made better improvements to some environments than what they were 1000 years ago. We are able to grow food in areas that were actually desert areas. The flip side is that we produce more pollution and trash than ever before. Depending on which side you are on, more trash and more pollution may be an improvement. Today's "Trash Man" is better skilled than a "Trash Man" 1000 years ago. There have been stumbling blocks and in some cased animals and cultures have gone extinct but over all much has improved.

Many times the things that don't improve are things that eventually disappear.

I have a thought on that, that is new/enlightening to me..will have to process it and flesh it out before i put it down.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Today's wheel is better than it was 1000 years ago.

Modern is not always better than the ancient.

Even today, in the modern gym, I still cannot find any training equipment that can help me to develop the "twisting power" better than the ancient one.

Also to develop a strong head lock, I have not be able to find any modern replacement for the ancient pole hanging yet.

 

[Anarax]

I'm more on the lines that people who practice TMA and try to fight with the techniques don't fight outside of their system, so all of the applications and approaches are based on Style A vs Style A.

This is more so dependent on the training approach opposed to TMA itself. The overwhelmingly majority of the various TMA I've trained in prepared us for techniques outside of our system. Though there are many schools that do what you say, I find those to be either low-quality schools or schools that insist on "purity".

Once it becomes a Style A vs Style B the TMA guy simply just doesn't have the exposure to what he's being attacked with to be to use any of the techniques.

This is also dependent on training approach and school rules. One Kung Fu school I went allowed grappling and takedowns in sparring. I was by no means a great grappler, but I could manage to get a single of double leg on a lot of the students. It frustrated a lot of the students but it was a fair move. However, the Karate school I went to would drill us on grappling and takedown defense because they knew grappling was a reality we might face in a confrontation. Thus taking the Karate students down was much more difficult. In essence, the TMA community is very diverse in training methods/approaches and is very dependent on the school itself.

 

[FriedRice]

I would ask, wasn't the Martial Arts mainly developed to kill and conquer; then rape, plunder, pillage and enslave what's left? And how would you feel about all of this McDojoing + Asian fetishes going on today? And how can we at least go back to beating people up in a pit to prove which style is better, like how it used to be done?

 

[Andrew Green]

People always make this assumption that skill goes upwards, when we dont actually know that for certain. We know technology goes upwards, but that doesnt always mean skill does. A simple example: quick math skills. Most people i know a generation ahead of me are better at math in their head, while people in my generation have trouble with basic addition/subtraction.

Sort of, calculators are now something that we always have with us. So mental math has become less relevant, but on a higher level mathematics has progresses. Todays top mathematicians have solved things that were not solved 30 years ago, and have access to a lot more knowledge at their fingertips.

Plus I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to learn to do mental math you'd be in a better position now then you would have been 30 years ago. There are simply more resources easily available to study from. You don't even have to leave the house to check out the limited selection the local library has anymore as that thing in your pocket has access to more information then the library on almost any subject.

Martial arts would be similar, change the context and the skill changes. No one alive has been in a full medieval battle armed with a sword or a bow. No one has actually defended or sieged a castle. Those skills now only exist in theory.

 

[Ironbear24]

I would say come with me if you want to live. I know that's not a question, but questions can be asked later. For now I have a history exam I need to pass.