ideas on kicks training

[Brundlefly]

Hi im looking to you tae kwon do guys for a little help. I currently train in shotokan karate. however i do struggle a bit with kicks. they tend to feel awkward and not very agile.

I feel this is one aspect of my training that is lacking somewhat.

How long do you guys spend streatching in a session and do you no of any drills that could help me improve.

thanks in advance

 

[terryl965]

First off what kicks are you trying to do and for what purpose, secondly what are the trouble you are having, no power lack of balance, too slow.
If you could break down what you really needs it would be helpful.

 

[Brundlefly]

Ok

My round house and front kick arnt too bad im working on them and am improving slowly.

My Side thrust kick (kekomi) feels really bad, im unbalanced and very slow with it, generally feels awkward. some tips would be great, thanks

 

[zDom]

Ok

My round house and front kick arnt too bad im working on them and am improving slowly.

My Side thrust kick (kekomi) feels really bad, im unbalanced and very slow with it, generally feels awkward. some tips would be great, thanks

Here are some tips for a Korean-style side (thrust) kick (yop chagi) :

Point the heel of your supporting foot directly toward the target.

As for the kicking leg: when chambering, pull the knee all the way back till it touches your shoulder. Keep the ankle as high as the knee, point your lower leg like a spear, and thrust out to strike with the bottom part of the heel — just like stomping down at ground, only tilted so stomping out to the side.

Also, rotate leg at the hip on kicking leg so the heel is slightly higher than the ball of the foot (this will match your supporting leg, which also will have rotated at the hip to point the heel).

Also, the heel should be thrust out and the ball of the foot pulled back.

Do this 1,000 times to get comfortable with the basic idea. Then do it another 9,000 times to really really get a handle on it.

 

[IcemanSK]

On your side kicks, the higher you bring your knee before throwing the kick, the better your balance & the strength of the kick. Remember to pivot your stationary foot as well.

Happy side kicks!

 

[terryl965]

the only thing I would add is remember to point your butt at the target to get the maxium power outof the kick also turning the statioary foot 180% while chambering the kick will help with proper balance

 

[woot]

Your side kick is really more like a back kick. You aim with your butt. Perhaps you could try this drill:

Stand facing a wall with one hand on the wall.
Look in the direction you are going to kick.
1. Now bring the knee of your kicking leg up as high as you can (you will notice that you will have to turn your body to get your knee up).
2. Point your butt in the direction you are kicking.
3. Lean over slightly and extend your leg into your kick.

Bring it back in the reverse order.
Break it down into little steps and eventually it should become one smooth motion.

 

[exile]

As for the kicking leg: when chambering, pull the knee all the way back till it touches your shoulder.

zD—you can get it that high???

Now I'm really depressed... the best I can manage is to get my knee about as high as the bottom of my rib cage. No way I can get it to come into contact with my upper body at all... is this something you did specific training for, or is it just natural flexibility? That's pretty awe-inspiring...

 

[RED]

When I was learning basic kicks. We did class after class of kicks to the count. Every kick can be broken down into segments and performed to a count. Perfecting each motion.
Example,
Side kick:

1. fighting stance
2. raise your knee up
3. cock your hips
4. kick out
5. bring foot back to #3.
1. fighting stance.
repeat.

This was all about muscle memorization.

 

[searcher]

you can get it that high???

Thats not to bad E. Just takes a little time and the lack of any fluff around the middle

 

[exile]

Thats not to bad E. Just takes a little time and the lack of any fluff around the middle

I'm around 11% or less body fat, so fluff around the middle isn't a problem But it's the `a little time' part that seems to be the hurdle. You're talking about something like dedicated stretch training on the chamber, if I read you right. Do the chamber, stretch as much as you safely can to get maximum height, hold it it, lower the leg, then repeat, for X many weeks, something like that?

I've never actually trained chamber height in a dedicated way. I like the idea of being able to kick from a super-high chamber even though my interest in the side kick is lower-mid to low range, with street-combat efficiency and safety considerations in mind; but always I like to kick as high as possible for balance training, and a high chamber seems essential to get that height. I can do a front stretch kick over my head with either leg but never actually considered stretch training on the chamber... hmmmm....

 

[Last Fearner]

Hi im looking to you tae kwon do guys for a little help. I currently train in shotokan karate. however i do struggle a bit with kicks. they tend to feel awkward and not very agile.

I feel this is one aspect of my training that is lacking somewhat.

Join a Taekwondo Dojang! This is where we teach proper kicking. :ultracool

_________________
Last Fearner

 

[zDom]

I'm around 11% or less body fat, so fluff around the middle isn't a problem But it's the `a little time' part that seems to be the hurdle. You're talking about something like dedicated stretch training on the chamber, if I read you right. Do the chamber, stretch as much as you safely can to get maximum height, hold it it, lower the leg, then repeat, for X many weeks, something like that?

I've never actually trained chamber height in a dedicated way. I like the idea of being able to kick from a super-high chamber even though my interest in the side kick is lower-mid to low range, with street-combat efficiency and safety considerations in mind; but always I like to kick as high as possible for balance training, and a high chamber seems essential to get that height. I can do a front stretch kick over my head with either leg but never actually considered stretch training on the chamber... hmmmm....

It's something I've trained since "day one." Big, exaggerated motions during training.

Now in actual use, the motions end up being smaller, but by starting with a baseline of a really LARGE motion, including a very large chamber, in use, the smaller motion is still big enough to generate some serious power.

Bouncing my knee off my shoulder/chest is something I do for several kicks, such as stomp kicks (front thrusting heel), side kicks, and of course axe kicks.

 

[exile]

It's something I've trained since "day one." Big, exaggerated motions during training.

Now in actual use, the motions end up being smaller, but by starting with a baseline of a really LARGE motion, including a very large chamber, in use, the smaller motion is still big enough to generate some serious power.

Bouncing my knee off my shoulder/chest is something I do for several kicks, such as stomp kicks (front thrusting heel), side kicks, and of course axe kicks.

But when you first started KMA, were you able to get your knee that high, zD? And if not, how long did it take you before you were able to get it up to shoulder height?

I figure it's going to take me a good deal longer, however long it took you, because my muscle and connective tissue elasticity is, ahem, not what it once was. But I'm willing to believe it's at least possible to do it, if I keep working at it...

 

[searcher]

It's something I've trained since "day one." Big, exaggerated motions during training.

Same here. I get made fun of so much at my Chito-ryu Sensei's dojo for chambering so high.:shrug: My TKD instructor has no problem with it, so I think it has to be a good thing.

I tend to hit more around the collarbone than at the shoulder, but still high.

 

[zDom]

But when you first started KMA, were you able to get your knee that high, zD?

Nope ... definately had to work the ol' hip flexors for many years before I was able to do it. That's one of the reasons the front thrusting heel kick is a great kick to train: really works those hip flexors (in addition to being a nice kick to have in the bag o' tricks).

And if not, how long did it take you before you were able to get it up to shoulder height?

Wish I could tell ya, Ex...

I really can't remember when ... I'm thinking it was a couple of years at least.

 

[wade]

Snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, huh? What? Oh yeah.. wait. OK, Exile, I have always stretched to increase the hight of my side kicks and round kicks. The front and axe kicks have always been secondary because they were easier. So, if you want to get you kicks up then work the muscles and tendons that will increase the hight of the round kicks and side kicks, OK? And no, when I first started my kicks were very low, now they are only medium low, about 6' off the ground. If I can do it (5'6") any one can, eh?

 

[exile]

Snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, huh? What? Oh yeah.. wait. OK, Exile, I have always stretched to increase the hight of my side kicks and round kicks. The front and axe kicks have always been secondary because they were easier.

I hear ya, Wade. I've never had any problem getting those kicks up high....

So, if you want to get you kicks up then work the muscles and tendons that will increase the hight of the round kicks and side kicks, OK? And no, when I first started my kicks were very low, now they are only medium low, about 6' off the ground. If I can do it (5'6") any one can, eh?

I'm thinking that I probably have neglected those particular muscle groups because they're... well, bloody hard to train. I do a lot of lower leg weight trainging and kicking slo-mo with ankle weights on, but those kinds of workouts all tend to strengthen the quadiceps, and those aren't the critical ones you're talking about. Over a short rep—3" to 5" from near the top of my pressing range—I can move close to 1,000 lbs. on a leg press machine, but all that quad strength doesn't translate into high kicks, even if you factor in devoted stretching, because the particular muscles involved aren't the quads but the ones at eh very top of the thigh, where the leg meets the hip, and there's very little in the way of ordinary weight training that specifically targets those muscle/tendon groups.

I need to figure out a way to do that... when I was doing physical theraphy for a badly torn set of shoulder muscles a couple of years ago I did a lot of exercises with stretchy latex bands of increasing resistance. I worked with those bands for half a year and pretty much recovered completely... I wonder if there's some kind of excercise I could work out with those bands, or some thing like them, that would target the muscles that come into play in high chambering...

Thanks for the advice... I need to think a bit about how to do this...

 

[exile]

Nope ... definately had to work the ol' hip flexors for many years before I was able to do it. That's one of the reasons the front thrusting heel kick is a great kick to train: really works those hip flexors (in addition to being a nice kick to have in the bag o' tricks).




Wish I could tell ya, Ex...

I really can't remember when ... I'm thinking it was a couple of years at least.

I meant to include zD's note (much appreciated, Scott! ) in the note I just sent in reply to Wade (also much appreciated!). What you're saying is very helpful, gives me an idea of the general time frame involved. I've been working on balance for most of the time I've been training kicks in TKD, it's my weak point, but is way better now than it was even a year ago. But I've always had a feeling, based on descriptions people have given me of what they do when they chamber, and on pictures I've seen of even low-dan BBs doing `textbook' thrusting side kicks, that my chambering isn't quite up to snuff, emphasis on `up'—I should be aiming to get the top of my knee parked up against my chest at least. Some of it is flexibility, and some is strength in the critical muscle groups that Wade was talking about... I'll gladly buy your estimate of a couple of years; that at least is doable (though I'm multiplying it by some number between 1 and 2, because of my relatively advanced age in starting).

Another thing to work on!!! But thanks to both you and Wade for the info... :asian:

 

[wade]

Try this, it will require a cup of coffee, a book and a dresser. Now, put your foot in a side kick position on the dresser, a little above comfort hight, then open the book, read, drink your coffee and relax. When this gets easy, get a taller dresser and repeat. Do this every day and your side and round kicks will get higher. Guaranteed or you money back. Do both sides for balance, OK?