I need a BJJ Translator

[JowGaWolf]

I asked someone in Jow Ga who knows how to fight on the ground, and I'm having difficulty in understanding his description so maybe some of you BJJ guys have a better visual on this description.

"Here are some counters and escapes for side control positions in ground martial arts:
Elbow inside the hip

- Get your elbow inside your opponent's hip, then push with your foot and elbow to get your hips away.
- Slip and flip
- Slide your fingers in, bridge to create distance, grab your opponent's body and head, pulse, and then flip them over.
- Slip and slide
- If your opponent is too heavy or counters your escape, slide out underneath them, straighten your legs, pull with your heels, invert your legs, and go to your knees.
- Pop up to a tripod

When your opponent starts to extend, pop up to a tripod and go back into pressure passing.
- Frame against the hip
- Put your knee up next to your opponent's hip, put your arm next to their head, move away, and frame against the hip with your forearm.
- Step your foot out to the side
- Move your hips laterally to escape, then turn your opponent's head in front of you.
- The side control position is a common situation in grappling and fighting, so it's important to learn how to defend attacks and escape from the bottom."

I'm having difficulty in visualizing me not getting choked out

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nevermind. I got it figured out. Someone was using Ai to give me this answer which is why it doesn't sound like a "Jow Ga" Answer. I was asking that person for the "Jow Ga Answer".

 

[JowGaWolf]

This was his real answer before the other one he gave
"Go nuts strike and evade lock get back up"

I would like to thank all my BJJ, and MMA sparring partners and friends for how I feel about this one.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yeah, some of those answers didn't make in sense in context for the question and the ones which might make sense were missing a lot of essential steps.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This was his real answer before the other one he gave
"Go nuts strike and evade lock get back up"

I would like to thank all my BJJ, and MMA sparring partners and friends for how I feel about this one.

He gave you an AI answer and this, rather than anything actual definitive, as a way to avoid side control? Are you sure he actually knows how to fight on the ground?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah, some of those answers didn't make in sense in context for the question and the ones which might make sense were missing a lot of essential steps.

yeah I felt the same thing about the essential steps just from learning from the little that you have shown me (which is a lot in my eyes), and the sparring I've done with other BJJ and MMA practitioners. I would never just "log roll" with you guys. The who "strike like crazy" isn't going to work. BJJ is like quick sand. But after reading a little more of what he posted he said that he did search with Ai for the answer. He was honest about it, so I just told him to be careful with Ai. Ai makes assumptions and will often get the context wrong.

In terms of Ai for martial arts, it will take steps and mash things together that really don't go together. Ai doesn't know how to do Martial Arts, and the Ai that we use doesn't factor in body mechanics and as a result. Ai is really bad for answering "What to do when someone takes side control."

 

[JowGaWolf]

He gave you an AI answer and this, rather than anything actual definitive, as a way to avoid side control? Are you sure he actually knows how to fight on the ground?

No I don't think he does. Had it been in a different environment I would have called him out on it, but I don't know his rank so I have to be cautious on what battles I respond. I will still give people an open ear and if it's something that doesn't make sense then I will ask, just in case it's my lack of knowledge that is causing my confusion.

I can talk to you guys openly and freely, but when I get into those Jow Ga communities, I must do a lot of censorship of myself.

All of this started because a younger student (younger in age but not "rank") made a chat group called "Jow Ga Adapted for Modern Times" The title got me heated and angry so for the last 2 days, I've been calming down and trying a less aggressive approach than what I would have taken if someone said it here in martial talk. You guys know me. If someone one says "Traditional Martial Arts for Modern Times." I'm going to come out and say "That's because you don't know how to use it." While that phrase may be true, it's definitely not the correct wording or approach to say amount people of rank lol.

So my approach to this issue is to start simple and just show how I use it vs addressing any disagreement on "What to do." I figure that the perceptions will change once they spar with a BJJ practitioner.

 

[drop bear]

Sort of this. I think.

 

[drop bear]

By the way. I would suggest underhook, hip escape, turtle, limp arm, stand up. Would be better.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sort of this. I think.

Thanks. I knew some stuff was missing when I was first told but I didn't think there was that much. It was like I was given a sentence out of a book and then was expected to make sense of the book.

 

[JowGaWolf]

By the way. I would suggest underhook, hip escape, turtle, limp arm, stand up. Would be better.

thanks

 

[Sammy Naur]

yeah I felt the same thing about the essential steps just from learning from the little that you have shown me (which is a lot in my eyes), and the sparring I've done with other BJJ and MMA practitioners. I would never just "log roll" with you guys. The who "strike like crazy" isn't going to work. BJJ is like quick sand. But after reading a little more of what he posted he said that he did search with Ai for the answer. He was honest about it, so I just told him to be careful with Ai. Ai makes assumptions and will often get the context wrong.

In terms of Ai for martial arts, it will take steps and mash things together that really don't go together. Ai doesn't know how to do Martial Arts, and the Ai that we use doesn't factor in body mechanics and as a result. Ai is really bad for answering "What to do when someone takes side control."

I'll say this, first and foremost you want to avoid even getting pinned into solid side control, and side control comes in different methods.

For example, kesa gatame (wrestling "head and arm") is my favorite side control method and if I get you in it, you're going to be there for a long while. You won't be able to hit me easily because it's a strong pin, you won't be able to even see because your head is immobilized, and typically the only escape is going to come from a bump and roll after I get tired. But it's easy not to get tired in such a position. I think my personal best was a 5m fire drill, the other guy once caught was just flailing.

BJJ cross side control is a different story, easier to escape from with pretty much the same maneuver. You are fighting gravity of a heavy body pinning you down.

The common escape between both is the bump to create some space and the roll/sweep to capitalize on that momentum. Again side control can mean different things, if I only have your mid body under control, it's a lot different than if I have your head and/or arm pinned, good luck fighting that. Best defense is never get there.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Someone was using Ai to give me this answer

Ugh that must have been annoying.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ugh that must have been annoying.

I didn't think I would get upset like I did, but my first reaction was not positive at all. The limited response was also a little surprising.

For example this was a response that was not explained,:
"I was taught to roll if a knee is over you. Try left than right he can't predict which way you will go. Get up fast"

I don't know what that statement means in the context of this. I've been in this position before, and rolling in any direction will be picked up. I can't "surprise roll" a BJJ person when I have a knee on belly. So when someone says that they have kung fu ground fighting skills I'm naturally curious about the approach that was taken. I'm fine with "Prevent this from happening in the first place." But I'm also realistic and Jow Ga has forms have "What if" concepts built into it. So in my mind. "What if this happens."

The last thing I want is someone to post what to do and then at the end state "I used Ai" That would be like me telling people that I can do kung fu and then I look up ai to answer "How do you do it."

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I didn't think I would get upset like I did, but my first reaction was not positive at all. The limited response was also a little surprising.

For example this was a response that was not explained,:
"I was taught to roll if a knee is over you. Try left than right he can't predict which way you will go. Get up fast"

I don't know what that statement means in the context of this. I've been in this position before, and rolling in any direction will be picked up. I can't "surprise roll" a BJJ person when I have a knee on belly.

My guess is that someone taught this person how to shrimp. You go on one side and push out, then the other side, back and forth. And when you get enough space one option is to try to leverage that space to stand up quickly. I could see someone hearing instructions for that, or seeing someone describe it in a demo (not in reality, you saw what happens when someone is actively trying to stop escaping via shrimp), and thought it's a simple "roll one way, then the other, then you're out".

 

[marvin8]

I didn't think I would get upset like I did, but my first reaction was not positive at all. The limited response was also a little surprising.

For example this was a response that was not explained,:
"I was taught to roll if a knee is over you. Try left than right he can't predict which way you will go. Get up fast"

I don't know what that statement means in the context of this. I've been in this position before, and rolling in any direction will be picked up. I can't "surprise roll" a BJJ person when I have a knee on belly. So when someone says that they have kung fu ground fighting skills I'm naturally curious about the approach that was taken. I'm fine with "Prevent this from happening in the first place." But I'm also realistic and Jow Ga has forms have "What if" concepts built into it. So in my mind. "What if this happens."
View attachment 32475

The last thing I want is someone to post what to do and then at the end state "I used Ai" That would be like me telling people that I can do kung fu and then I look up ai to answer "How do you do it."

Some examples of escaping knee on belly from YouTube.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Update on the guy I've been having the conversation with on the on facebook.
1. I started to think I was talking to Ai
2. Solution to everything is punch fast
3. Someone is messing with me and playing games with me to see if I start to sound arrogant.

I wished that the video cameras existed when the old masters were fighting. I mentioned that it's always good to record sparring when possible so you can go back and study what was done and to view what you do from the perspective of someone watching the sparring session. The response to that comment was:
"I can replay my sparring in my head and like a super computer can see it all around."

I get the same feeling that I got when I dropped my last sparring "Get back up., don't patronize me. I didn't even punch you."

So far. He's the only talking in the chat so I'll give a few weeks to see what if anyone else responds. I can only assume by the title of the chatroom that many do not know how to use Jow Ga or they aren't keeping an eye on the chat.


How to modernize Jow Ga sounds like the Jow Ga version of Rokas. At this pace I don't think I will gain any knowledge from that chat. For example, I have already gotten more meaningful responses from you guys on this issue than where I originally asked about it. But then, it's only one person responding so I won't paint everyone in that Facebook chat with the same brush.