I hate the casual Mac user

[Bigshadow]

My point was just generally decrying the lack of progress over the last 15 years at least when it comes to IDEs. especially in the more 'mainstream' worlds of C/C++, Java, and the like

I never intended to imply there hasn't been progress in the last 15 years. The progress has been amazing! But at the same time, Microsoft has progressed as well. The biggest problem still remains, the transition. It is far easier to startup on a platform rather than transition hardware/software, and skill sets.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I never intended to imply there hasn't been progress in the last 15 years. The progress has been amazing!

And that was my contention. Progress hasn't been amazing. VisualStudio and other IDEs for 'mainstream' development languages such as C++, Java, etc.. are sorta catching up to what was already available15 or more years ago in other languages (mostly Smalltalk from my experience ...and those IDEs only built upon what was already available in Smalltalk environments a *lot* longer ago then that)

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm astounded that some people who I have previously taken to be very intelligent fail to see behind the veil that is Micro$oft to the truth.

It's a waste of time to argue with such ingrained attitudes other than to say that, as with governments, populations get the software they deserve.

I don't know what development work or systems the MS lovers above engage in the production of but I just pray that it's nothing of consequence.

All I can say on the counter-side is that nothing we make ('we' being involed in the creation of control systems from everything from a 66kV Sub to a nuclear power station) runs on Windoze OS's, other than maybe a graphical interface here and there where it can't do any harm.

I don't mean to be confrontational, tho' I may sound it I'm just tired and so not very diplomatic, but bloaty crashware that needs regular reboots does not cut it outside of domestic apps and the Net. We need something that works all the time and has a failure rate bordering on the realm of never.

The sheer muscle of Microsoft (strange how noone ever mentions the copyright thefts involved in its creation any more) means that it can shoehorn it's way in to all sorts of markets but 'real' coding skill is still necessary when it comes to stable mission critcal apps rather than flash front-ends (that Linux does better).

 

[Bigshadow]

I don't know what development work or systems the MS lovers above engage in the production of but I just pray that it's nothing of consequence.

Microsoft is a love/hate relationship. If they were not the industry standard then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't mean to be confrontational, tho' I may sound it I'm just tired and so not very diplomatic, but bloaty crashware that needs regular reboots does not cut it outside of domestic apps and the Net. We need something that works all the time and has a failure rate bordering on the realm of never.

I am familiar with Electric Utility systems. Most of your stuff doesn't need a user interface anyway except user consoles in the control center. Certainly in your line of work, Linux is well suited. However, MS Servers don't need frequent reboots either. What causes frequent reboots is often attributed to poorly written 3rd party software running on the MS Servers. Back in the NT 3.51 and 4.0 days, reboots were common. That isn't the case today. In fact, I never understood why Microsoft put a GUI on it's Server. When MS NT 3.51 and 4.0 came out I was a Novell/Netware Engineer and thought it was silly for a server to run a GUI and I still believe that.


BTW, I have written server based services that are running on MS Servers and NEVER require reboots. Running for 2 to 3 years without a hick up. The only reboots our servers ever see are associated with updates and that is under our control.

 

[newGuy12]

Well, I can say this. I am a hobbyist. A true hobbyist. I do not develop software for money. I work in a low level tech support job, and am very happy to have that job. Now, I work with some guys that are TRUE UNIX MEN! And, that alone is a great boon to me.

You see, to me, the computer machine is a type of toy. I wish to explore it, code up applications for fun. Not for profit, for fun. For the joy of seeing something work. Now, one of the men that I spoke of just deployed squirrel mail. He found three bugs (and fixed them!). One was a huge bug.

I respect the idea that coding that is open for others to see will be superior in the end. That is truly how I feel. More eyes on the code means that it has the potential to be greater code. That is an ideological belief that I have, and I am very biased. I am a "true believer" and no one can change my mind about this.

Someday I hope to participate in the "Community". I may never be able to submit code that is worthy to be used, BUT, I may be able to be a competent beta tester someday, or perhaps help out with documentation. The "Community" is a very wonderful thing! I am amazed by it! I can alter any kind of software in this environment in any way that I wish! That is total FREEDOM!

I salute all of these great hackers right here and now. They have given me so much pleasure with their kernels and applications! That is one reason why I have joined the FSF and I have purchased official OpenBSD cd's (and will again in the future, I plan)!

Because I code only for FUN, not for a job, I can take this point of view. There are no "deadlines" for me to meet with my little projects. No. There is no boss who tells me what to do. It is only me.

 

[Sukerkin]

Fabulous post by Bigshadow above and kudos for your enthusiasm, NG.

I concur with what Mr Russ said with regard to how much of the troubles with server installations were down to badly written and integrated third party wares. Quite true, David :rei:.

I also would emphasise the distinction between a server unstall and a normal user install.

The user PC will generally be hit by many different kinds of software from all over the place and it must be said that, altho' things are better than they were, those programs often fail to get along well with each other. Also, it can't be denied that a number of people doing those installs will have no idea of what they're doing - with inevitable consequences.

 

[RED]

Gee...I just looked at a Mac at best buy last night. First off let me tell you I don't know much about computers. I don't want to have a computer hobby. Other than my 3 kids, my hobby is a Fiat (Fix It Again Tony.) anyone who has owned one will realise you can only have one hobby when you own one. I can install hardware and that is about my limmit. If I have a problem with my computer I take it to my IT friend. I'm jumping into this conversation because I've had two PCs in the past year that got a virus and ruined the hard drive even with anti virus and a firewall. I was recomended to buy a Mac. I am a complete casual user that doesn't want the head aches involved with choosing software to advoid virus'. I just want to jump on-line and use it for my children's homework. Is a Mac the wrong choice for my family? I often thought of PCs as the Wal-Mart of computers. I don't work around computers, I put my bills in the mail, and gaming to me is getting the board out of the closet. I guess I'm hated here. I want something I can rely on that is GI proof.

I'm not for PCs or Macs I just want a shoe that fits. There seems to be a lot of experienced knowledgable computer guru's here...recommendations?

 

[RED]

Yeah!! I just made MT blue belt!

Now back to the subject.

 

[newGuy12]

I am a complete casual user that doesn't want the head aches involved with choosing software to advoid virus'. I just want to jump on-line and use it for my children's homework. Is a Mac the wrong choice for my family?

I can't comment on the best computer for your FAMILY, however, in my estimation, a Mac would be the best choice for YOU. And no one can make me change my mind.

Unless someone in your family wants to play games that cannot run on a Mac, I see absolutely no reason for you to ever involve yourself with those excuses for Operating Systems that come out of Redmond. More expensive, but freaking worth it -- I'm sticking to my story.



All the best,

Robert

 

[blackxpress]

Been a PC user since 93. Recently switched to Mac. Use it for everything and love it. Hate me if you want but I'll never go back to PC. Macs rule!