"I 'Do Not' volunteer for overseas.'"

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, check out the front page of, "The New York Times," today. Article titled: "Portrait of Bush in '72: Adrift in A Turbulent Time."

Here's a coupla samples:

"Every so often, he would take off work to fly with the National Guard. His entry into the Guard had come through Ben Barnes, then the lieutenant governor of Texas, who has said that he helped get Mr. Bush, along with other well-connected young men, a slot at the request of a Bush family friend. When Mr. Bush applied, in 1968, one of the forms he filled out asked if he would volunteer for overseas duty; he checked, 'I 'Do Not' Volunteer for overseas."

"Whatever the reason, on Sept. 5, Mr. Bush was notified that he was suspended from flying, 'for failure to accomplish annual medical examination...

By that time, still without an Alabama unit, he had not attended a required monthly drill for alomst five months, according to records released by the White House. Under the law at the time, he could have been sent to Vietnam..."

Now of course, some readers will claim this is all made up. Some will say it's irrelevant. Nobody's gonna change their mind...even if the article goes on to detail his part in the same, same dirty politics he's pulling now.

Looks to me like he did what I did--I didn't volunteer, either. But then too, I don't go around trumpeting my patriotism, calling on God, getting us into wars, attacking the patriotism of my opponent. And I ain't running for Prez.

But doesn't that "I "Do Not," Volunteer," bother any of you?

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

When I joined the Army in 1970 there was not a place to check "I do not volunteer for overseas". There were areas that you could make a personal request to go overseas. Which I did! Besides that I can let you know what we all knew about the Texas Air National Guard in the late sixties. They did not go to Nam! Only the RA's, US's, Jarheads, Swabs and Flyboys went to Nam! There was a saying around about that time. "Score high, or die!"

 

[Phoenix44]

Don't sweat it. If S.89 and H.R.163 pass, it won't be necessary to volunteer.

 

[michaeledward]

The 'I Do Not' ... part of the young man's paperwork does not bother me that much. I suppose given the choice, many of us would make the same choice.

I am more concerned by the young man's absence from his unit --- which ever unit you consider:

He left Texas without the TANG's permission.
When he asked for permission he was denied.
The regulations allow for transfer to "equivelent" duty ... but there were no jets in the Alabama Unit.
He had his flight privledges suspended (that must be embarrassing - despite the exuses given).
He not only missed his 'flight' physical, but he also has not produced records for the physical required for his 27th birthday.

This is the item that bothers me the most. Not because it hasn't been answered by the Bush people, but because it hasn't been addressed by the media.
Even if Bush no longer had 'flight status', a periodic physical was required once every four years, including the 8 months prior to their 27th birthday. George W. Bush turned 27 on July 6, 1973. His last military physical was in 1971.

​

I don't think this is going to go away. Even if Bush is re-elected, this issue, I believe is the albatross around his neck.

We'll see. - Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

I'd read the "Times," article. Not only does it clear a lot of this stuff up--by which I mean to say that it's pretty damn clear that Bush a) took advantage of his family's connections to a) get into Yale (didn't have the grades), b) get into the Guard, c) got excused from some of his service to go work on a very nasty Congressional campaign, d) didn't take his physical and got his flight status suspended, e) still had about two years to go on his commitment to the Guard when he was suspended, f) was honorably discharged, but under fishy circumstances.

The only reason the check on the box matters--as I noted, I didn't volunteer either, that's for damn sure--is that it illustrates that his reflexes, right from the start and still, have been very very different from what he tells everybody else to do.

But the article's an interesting inventory of political sneakiness and tricks, as well as an outline of what we know for absolute certain, no screwups by Dan Rather need apply.

 

[jeffkyle]

Don't sweat it. If S.89 and H.R.163 pass, it won't be necessary to volunteer.

Volunteering would not even be the useful word at that point!

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

The point I tried to make lads, is that if you're in the Texas Air National Guard, you cannot volunteer for overseas duty. The Air National Guards defended the homefront during the cold war. All the character bashing makes no sense. To be honest, when I was in the military, I hated National Guardsmen. They were older, richer, just out of college (Their 2S deferments had ended) and did not go overseas! They went back home to Mama. The rest of us poor jerks had to put our lives on the line. That is why you had to "Score high or die!"

Remember; It takes courage to fly a jet at supersonic speeds.

It takes just as much courage to lead a swift boat up the Mekong river!

 

[PeachMonkey]

All the character bashing makes no sense.

Unless you consider:

-- The individual in question used political influence to get into a position that would guarantee not going overseas
-- The individual in question skipped out on even that commitment

>Remember; It takes courage to fly a jet at supersonic speeds.

It takes even more courage to stick with your commitment to fly that jet, instead of skipping out.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

The whole point I'm trying to make is that all of the bashing is just heresay! On both candidates! None of it is provable! If you are for Kerry, you believe the Bush bashing. If you are for Bush, you believe the Kerry bashing.

Of course it took political influence to get into the Texas Air National Guard. It also took political influence to leave Nam after four months! Good for them. Kerry got the million dollar wound and the purple heart. Bush got lucky and did'nt have to go to Nam. A lot of men would have taken that if given the chance.

Very few leaders today say "Follow me!" They all say "Charge!"

I hate all officers!:supcool:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Actually, both candidates' records are pretty well-documented from government and military sources. We know for a fact that Bush got into the Guard with his dad's help, that he transferred to Alabama to work on a polticial campaign, that he refused to take a physical, that he got suspended from flight status, that he took off to Harvard a few months in advance of completing his service. We also know that Kerry served on a Swift Boat in Vietnam, that he got shot at, that he received three minor wounds, that he won a coupla solid medals, that he did less than a year's tour for reasons that the Navy found acceptable.

Oh yes. We also know that Kerry's subsequent career is pretty consistent with his military experience, and that Bush's is not.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

So you're a Kerry guy. Good. A Bush guy would rationalize differently. I'm not a Bush guy! I would'nt support either. Both say that they are the one who can tell me how to live! I want someone who will let me live as I want to live.:supcool:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Actually, no. I just think that Kerry's preferable to our present....President.

I'm also not quite sure where it is that Kerry's been telling everybody how to live, which in my view is a big plus.

 

[Tkang_TKD]

So you're a Kerry guy. Good. A Bush guy would rationalize differently. I'm not a Bush guy! I would'nt support either. Both say that they are the one who can tell me how to live! I want someone who will let me live as I want to live.:supcool:

Please, Please, Please tell me you're not a Nader supporter! (Just Kidding )

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

Of course you're kidding. Nader is a Marxist! I hate Marxism.

 

[Phil Elmore]

What I hate most about President Bush is the way he kicks puppies and drinks the blood of infants to stay young. That really bugs me.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

Sharp Phil, you're a long gone cat!:ladysman:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Gee huh. I guess what I dislike most is when a rich kid whose daddy pretty much bought him his education, his jobs, his "Get Out of Vietnam Free," card, and his political head start gets a coupla terms as a weak Gov of Texas by mud-slinging, becomes President in a dubious election, launches us into a stupid war, passes out the goodies to his corrupt cronies, pushes a tax cut for the very wealthy, runs up a 500 bil deficit on its way to a tril, and either thumps the Bible or wraps himself in the Flag every time he opens his mouth.

And of course there's the gun-waving hoorawing aided and abetted by a guy who HAD his chance to serve, and ducked it. I just left that out, because I didn't want to include any cheap and opffensive commentary.

Incidentally, Dan Rather will be airing his complete expose, "The Bushes: A Century of Puppy Punting and Baby Sucking," on "60 Minutes, Sunday Edition," next month. I hear it's VERY well documented.

 

[Ronald R. Harbers]

I've always hated rich kids too.

 

[Tgace]

What I hate most about President Bush is the way he kicks puppies and drinks the blood of infants to stay young. That really bugs me.

Hey, who leaked that? Was it that Dan Rather guy again? How does he manage to get all those scoops?

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Hey, who leaked that? Was it that Dan Rather guy again? How does he manage to get all those scoops?

Somehow, they just seem to "materialize"