I called the State Police

[Lynne]

I went to the trouble to clarify some points and answer your questions. I typed a long response and got logged out and lost the text.

I will respond tomorrow; it's late and I have to go to bed if I can wind down from karate class.

Thank you very much for your support.

Goodnight.

 

[Lynne]

To answer your questions and clarify:

Carol, righto. There was no money involved, so solicitation was the wrong word?

The 20 year old hasn't contacted my daughter. His girlfriend, "J," contacted my daughter. She did say that she wanted to have sex with my daughter and that her boyfriend was turned on by girls-with-girls. J said they were looking for someone to join them. I can only jump to one of these conclusions:

- the dirtbag boyfriend asked J to find someone to join them
- J decided to ask my daughter on her own accord because she knew this would please her boyfriend if she could find someone
- the boyfriend saw my daughter's picture on myspace and asked J to contact her

My gut instinct says it was the latter. For one thing, my daughter was totally shocked that J would even ask that sort of thing. My daughter said, "I can't believe she asked me that. She should know me better than that. She's really changed a lot. She's become a slut and I guess she thinks everyone else is, too."

I stopped the girls from seeing one another about two years ago because the girl was unsupervised (her parents worked/do work 2nd shift) and she was getting into trouble. She'd begun smoking, she was drinking alcohol, boys were coming over, and she was arrested for shoplifting at Wal-Mart. I imagine much of that was a cry for help and a great deal of loneliness, but I wasn't going to have my daughter dragged down that path. Also, J betrayed my daughter and my daughter found out that their friendship wasn't all that valuable. The girl had become an all-out manipulator and liar.

Yes, 17 is the age of consent in New York. J is 16, won't be 17 until January. I can't say if the boy is truly 20 because I don't know him. A 16 year old might lie about her boyfriend's age to try and impress other teens. My gut instinct tells me he is 20 though. I agree that a 20 year old shouldn't be sleeping with a 16 year old. My husband and I weren't sure who to call. The man's residence is in Broome County and we live in Tioga County; that's we called the State Police. We don't have a local police department but the town the man lives in does. Now, that the girl is back home for the school year, do you think it's a moot point to go to the police/sheriff? Or do you think I should pursue it anyway? The guy is a dirtbag for wanting to bring in a third person, especially since the girl is 16. On the otherhand, the girl chose to live with him during the summer. But she is only 16, which is why such laws are made I suppose!

My husband and myself have a very close relationship with our daughter. One mistake I made is that I called the State Police before I told her I was going to do so. She was in bed and she was startled when I informed her. She was a little miffed. I believe it was mostly embarrassment because she knew she'd have to regurgitate the sorded details to a stranger (two male officers came out actually). I'm glad I thought about this. I need to apologize to her for not warning her. This is one reason we are so close - I apologize when I make mistakes. It's a respect issue.

I was careful to explain to her why I'd involved the police. I told her that it wasn't moral, it wasn't normal, to ask people for sex online. I told her the boyfriend was probably behind the whole thing, using his girlfriend to find partners so he wouldn't get into trouble. We talked about the sanctity of relationships and that multiple partners was not a good thing. (I don't want to step on toes here; some here may be polyamorous, but it's up to me to teach my daughter what I think is right/wrong.) We also talked, once again, about how having multiple partners increases one's chances of contracting HIV and other STD's. My daughter knew all of this in her own heart.

In case some people want to say this a "gayness" issue, it is not. I have taught my daughter tolerance. She had a close friend who is lesbian, so it's not the homosexual issue.

My husband and I are very fortunate that our daughter has turned out as she has. We do homeschool which provides some control and some shelter from the negative aspects of the high school environment. No, she is not being smothered. We have volunteered at a state-run nursing home (that was a ghastly place) and a food shelter. At one time, we were very involved in the church. Leaving the church was actually one of the best things we did. But she has a moral foundation to look back upon. She's quite headstrong and micromanagement of her personal life by the church would have been a detriment, and indeed, would have caused rebellion.

Being a headstrong girl, my daughter could have gotten into a load of trouble if involved with the wrong crowd. The girl next door is one of the reasons my husband and I decided to continue homeschooling; we didn't want our daughter going down that path. Perhaps it's socioeconomic, but our local high school has a large undisciplined population of students. Two years ago, my daughter went to a school dance and girls were doing lap dances on boy's laps. Teachers nor chaperones did anything to stop that nonsense. In at least one other school district, that kind of behavior is not allowed.

True, she doesn't have her driver's license yet nor is she working. Right now, she is concentrating on her studies and martial arts. I think she has a rather full plate with the two.

When she is 18, it will be her decision whom her friends are.

I think she really has what it takes to be a fine martial artist. She is willing to stand up and tell the truth and she's willing to defend others. A teenage male in our class had gotten fresh with one of the women in class. In the locker room, she told us what the young man had did while she had him in a headlock. He'd ground his face into her breasts and moved his hand up her thigh toward her private area. My daughter and I discussed this and we talked about how it might continue if not stopped. We talked about how inappropriate it was for a martial artist to act this way. We also discussed that the woman would probably be reluctant to say anything. My daughter made the decision on her own to say something to the senior female instructor. She's not the tattle-tale type. She thought it over and decided the situation wasn't going to fly!

I'm thankful that my daughter has her eye on achievement and accomplishment. Being a headstrong young woman, things could have gone very badly if she decided she'd wanted to experiment/rebel.

 

[Lynne]

Oh, I do have a german shepherd. He's AKC, all black, and a sweetiepie. I'm not sure what he'd do if someone broke into the home. He was two years old in May and has only barked twice. And he's intact!

His predecessor was something else (sable german shepherd in my avatar). "Harley" (114#) was quite aggressive towards other people. I muzzled him when I walked him. He would jump on the back door so hard when someone knocked that we were worried he'd shatter the glass panes. He scared away quite a few people.

So, even with the even-tempered black shepherd, we have the reputation of being "those people with the big mean dog." No one knows this one is laid back.

That doesn't bother me at all. Considering the number of meth labs in my county and the fact that we are in a rural area, it's a good thing.

As far as aggression and threats go, no I wouldn't approach the man or his girlfriend. I'm one of the most easygoing people I know, but I can't say how I'd react in this kind of situation. I'm a parent and my emotions are involved. I can't trust myself not to do something unlawful or close to unlawful.

I know some people fantasize about what they would do or what they would like to do, or they go beat up on a pillow and imagine it's their foe. I'm not so sure these things are good either. I think it trains your mind to react in a violent manner - that's just my personal opinion. I do think doing something physical like breaking boards or practicing forms or running is good to release the tension though. I could channel my tension and anger into the boards without specifically thinking of some violent act.

The natural response is to want to beat the heck out of someone, I'll agree with that!

 

[Tez3]

Lynne,you seem to have walked the fine line between over-reacting and being too laid back with great finesse! My daughter is 22 now and we are great friends. She, like your daughter, is very strong willed and it took a lot of effort sometimes to try and let her make her own mistakes but keep her safe at the same time.sometimes my tongue I swear was bitten through. There's a lot to be said for locking your daughters up lol! Seriously though you seem to have struck the right note with her. We, hopefully, teach our children to be independent and with moral principles so we can let them off to make their own lives without worrying overmuch.

It's very easy to try and make all the decisions for them and to lay down the law, all I think that does is send them off in the wrong direction.

When my daughter was 10 and about to go to senior school at 11 we were looking for a suitable school. One we looked at was a very good Jewish boarding school ( sadly closed before we could enter her). the headmaster had a very good view of the children's pyschology. the school food of course was Kosher but the children would either sneak off to the local pizza shop or order from them.They weren't Kosher so the kids were breaking the 'rules', this didn't worry the headmaster at all but he would make a point of making seem as if he was horrified by it. Every so often he would launch a 'campaign' against buying the pizza, he would catch some of the children who ordered it and give them extra homework etc. The children were really convinced that by having illicit pizza they were being rebels and flouting the system so they weren't bothered about flouting any other rules. As the headmaster said the children needed something to rebel against and when the rules were enforced they may resent it but deep down they knew it was because someone cared enough about them to care what they were doing. As the children grew older they realised this.
BTW this is the school that 'Ali G's' alter ego went to.

 

[Flying Crane]

For one thing, my daughter was totally shocked that J would even ask that sort of thing. My daughter said, "I can't believe she asked me that. She should know me better than that. She's really changed a lot. She's become a slut and I guess she thinks everyone else is, too."

Sounds to me like this won't become a real problem for you. She's got a clear head about it, and has established her own boundaries that seem to correspond closely with your own. While the whole situation sounds pretty irritating, I wouldn't worry too much about it, so far as your daughter is concerned. Congratulations on establishing a good, healthy, respectful, and open relationship with her.

 

[Lynne]

Thanks for the support and the encouraging comments. Much appreciated!

 

[Lynne]

Update

The young lady, "J," had a baby (duh?) in April, by the aforementioned man, "S," for stupid. She is now 17 and he's 21. She may be pregnant again (duh). Maybe I should reverse those initials.

J's parents are tenants of my next door neighbor. They live in a mobile home on the property. J's boyfriend moved in with the family.

When I was walking my dog, I saw S (didn't know it was him at the time), sitting out front, talking on his cellphone. I didn't recognize him as being family or a tenant. I did get the creeps though. There was something about him. Maybe because he looks like a skinhead? Can't help but make judgements sometimes. But often our instincts are right on.

Anyway, we live on 6 acres. The back of the property is wooded with a path that runs along the creek. (Yes, it's very nice.) My husband keeps the path cut so that we can walk the dog back there and just enjoy nature. We've thought about putting a screened observatory back there. Those plans may be put off...until we win the lotto and can afford a fence.

My husband noticed that pieces of cardboard had been nailed to some of the trees and that they had orange paint on some, green on some. Surely not something the forestry service would do (at first we thought maybe they had marked trees for some reason as some are diseased). Paintball?

My husband asked my neighbor if he knew the source of the cardboard markers (we didn't ask about the cigarette butts). He does have a 22 year-old son renting an upstairs apartment; we thought he might have been playing paintball. My husband was very nice about it, just inquiring. We were more curious than anything.

The neighbor talked to my husband yesterday. The tenant's daughter's boyfriend, "S," had been playing paintball on our property. He's also been shooting our trees with BB's. He actually shot out one of the neighbor's windows with BB's. He pointed the BB gun at one of the neighbor's children, a 6 year old boy. The neighbor confronted the "S" (remember "S" for stupid) and told him not to go on other people's property. "S" said we didn't go back there anyway, blah, blah, and gave the neighbor a bunch of lip. What gall Of course, that speaks to his character. When I got his myspace account for the state police, it said he was majoring in criminal justice! :BSmeter:

Anyway, my daughter is 18 and I've instructed her to make sure she is fully-clothed at all times. I fully expect a peeping Tom. My deceased German Shepherd alerted quickly. This one is laid back and doesn't bark unless he wants a snack so we may not know that someone is creeping around. I've smelled cigarette smoke a few times but that could have been from anywhere.

 

[KELLYG]

I am glad you called the State Police. My creep-o-meter is going off just by reading what was posted. I am also glad that you and your daughter have a relationship such that she could come to you if her creep-o-meter goes off. Keep your eyes on this guy he is up to no good.

 

[Kreth]

My husband noticed that pieces of cardboard had been nailed to some of the trees and that they had orange paint on some, green on some. Surely not something the forestry service would do (at first we thought maybe they had marked trees for some reason as some are diseased). Paintball?

Pick yourself up a low-end paintball gun and some ammo. Store ammo in the freezer. When you see the scumbag in your backyard, open fire. If he reports it, since he was in your yard, you thought the game was open to anyone... :idunno:

 

[Lynne]

I am glad you called the State Police. My creep-o-meter is going off just by reading what was posted. I am also glad that you and your daughter have a relationship such that she could come to you if her creep-o-meter goes off. Keep your eyes on this guy he is up to no good.

Why did he have to move next door? I thought he would split as soon as the girl was pregnant. I can't say for sure, but I don't think he has a job. He has a roof over his head and I suspect there is welfare money and food stamps coming in because of the baby. He may be there for awhile unless he's evicted.

Someone who is 21 and acts like he does is definitely up to no good. I know there are some law officers on this site. I wonder what they would have to say. Can you imagine shooting someone's window out at 21? The balls to go onto someone else's property and nail stuff to their trees? Those traits have to be earmarks for the potential for serious criminal activity in the future.

He moved in without permission from the landlord, too. Of course he didn't get permission. Entitlement, you know.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Isn't 16y.o. still covered by statutory rape indictment in most states? I thought that the usual age-of-consent was 17... ?

In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19.

Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.

 

[Lynne]

In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19.

Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.

I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old. Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young. There are exceptions I suppose.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old. Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young. There are exceptions I suppose.

I knew a guy in High school. He was a second year Senior (so, he was 19). His girl friend was a freshman (she was 14). Long story short, she's 16 and pregnant.

 

[DavidCC]

Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy). She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind). So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.

I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history. Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.

 

[Lynne]

Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy). She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind). So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.

I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history. Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.

It's funny how visions of chops to the jaw, sidekicks to the head, and groin strikes enter the mind isn't it? The bad thing is you probably had enough knowledge to kill the guy with one strike and might not have even known you possessed that knowledge, i.e., a certain strike that can actually kill.

 

[Archangel M]

I "probably" wouldn't allow my 17 year old date a 20 year old. Seventeen year old girls can be quite mature, but I wonder about a 20 year old man who wants to date a girl that young. There are exceptions I suppose.

It would be like a freshman dating a senior. Like you, I would have to take those on a case by case basis. 2-3 year differences can be much different when comparing 17-20 year olds vs. 27-30 year olds.

 

[Archangel M]

Whne my oldest was 15 she started going down that road (18 yo guy). She wouldn;t listen to me about what a dirt bag the guy must be for wanting to date her (it must have been very flattering to her 15 yr old mind). So I simply suggested she talk to the girls at shcool who were his age, and ask them why none of them would go out with him.

I don't know if she did, or if just that suggestion opened her eyes to the truth, but he was history. Good thing too, because I was a silly purple belt by then and itching for some chance to deliver a righteous ***-whooping.

A lot (legally) can depend on your states laws regarding age of consent and statutory rape law.

 

[DavidCC]

A lot (legally) can depend on your states laws regarding age of consent and statutory rape law.

If he had been 19 I'd have called the cops. I would have hit that guy so hard he would wake up with psychic powers.

 

[Lynne]

If he had been 19 I'd have called the cops. I would have hit that guy so hard he would wake up with psychic powers.

A near-death experience!

 

[theletch1]

In my state you can be 16 and sleep with a 19 year old. But, you have to be 17 to sleep with a 20 year old. I don't get the logic though. I also don't understand why you must still live with your parents until you're 19, and still need there permission to marry until you're 19.

Some laws are just dumb. What are you going to do.

As I understand it (Va has a law very similar) the 2 year age difference is a loophole for couples where in one of them would turn 18 (adult) and the other would still be 17 ("child). If the couple had already been dating for a while and these birthdays took place a good couple could conceivably be doing something illegal for a few months. Go out beyond the two year spread and we get into statutory rape and even child molestation. The law isn't "dumb" it's actually one that was thought out a little instead of just tossing a blanket statement on the entire deal and saying 18 is the cut off. Keeps 30 something guys from saying "Hey, she's over the age of consent I can do it if I want".