I'm working on natural movement in various directions, it's a skill challenge area for me. It's also a physical issue since I'm not skinny, am old, and my knees are complaining when I move sideways. I *think* it's more tendon/ligament because walking forward is fine. The first possible solution is turning the leg at the hip to put the knee in proper alignment, but maybe there are better ways? I keep thinking the Ba-gua folks must have this down to a science...
How to turn without stressing knees?
- Thread starter Leam_Hall
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In Iai we tend to turn on the balls of our feet, driving the turn by torquing the pelvis. At first it was so difficult because the friction between ball of foot and a shiny wooden floor was seemingly too great to overcome. At one point I even resorted to applying talc to my feet which worked for a short time and made a mess of my black dōgi! I asked a senior teacher about it and he said, “Oh it’s just ‘weight management’, work out where to distribute your weight to which part of you foot/feet. Just keep practising and it’ll come.” That didn’t seem very helpful but he was right. In time, it just clicked and happened.
That was at the beginning of my journey but quite recently the same thing happened with moving around on the floor from a kneeling position on rubbery sports hall floors, which seem to be becoming more common. It was alway said that you take the weight off your knees by pushing down with the feet. I just couldn’t do it. Then training on a bumpy wooden floor, it just happened! It was like frictionless gliding and is now automatic requiring no thought.
Keep experimenting….it’ll come…
That was at the beginning of my journey but quite recently the same thing happened with moving around on the floor from a kneeling position on rubbery sports hall floors, which seem to be becoming more common. It was alway said that you take the weight off your knees by pushing down with the feet. I just couldn’t do it. Then training on a bumpy wooden floor, it just happened! It was like frictionless gliding and is now automatic requiring no thought.
Keep experimenting….it’ll come…
isshinryuronin
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I've written a couple of times on my continual work on pivoting (after many decades of karate). Starting the turn with the hips will stress the hips until the rest of the leg catches up. Starting the turn with the feet will result in a weak turn (and weakness in the technique following the turn.) since the hips are the source of power.
The answer for me is to place the ball of the stepping foot in the end position and then pivot the entire body as one piece at the same time. (IMO, it should be considered as part of the technique which follows.) This gives a quicker turn as there is no time lag from hip to foot chain and a powerful turn as the entire mass of the body is being delivered into the turn.
Stepping/pivoting is often neglected, being seen as a "connector" move between techniques. But it should be considered as much a technique as punching, or any other move, worthy of practice and drilling in the aim of continual improvement in terms of speed and power.
The answer for me is to place the ball of the stepping foot in the end position and then pivot the entire body as one piece at the same time. (IMO, it should be considered as part of the technique which follows.) This gives a quicker turn as there is no time lag from hip to foot chain and a powerful turn as the entire mass of the body is being delivered into the turn.
Stepping/pivoting is often neglected, being seen as a "connector" move between techniques. But it should be considered as much a technique as punching, or any other move, worthy of practice and drilling in the aim of continual improvement in terms of speed and power.
- Thread Starter
- #5
Totally agree with the movement being part of the technique!
How would you apply to shifting without turns? For example, if you're facing forward and you shift right but want to end up facing the same direction, would you lift the left heel and turn it slightly right, push off the ball of the left foot, lift and move the right foot, and then bring the left back into proper distance? Or something else?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
It might be helpful if you tell us what martial system you have been training, and specifically what context and type of turning to which you are referring. Might get some on-target suggestions if we have some more info.
Fungus
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This has several components I think, and I am not sure I fully understood the type of movement you consider, is it like turning kicks?
What I found, regardless of wether you turn on the ball or heel (I personally do both, but at different situations), or pre-place your feet by side stepping, another trick to solve the friction problem is that if you turn with a timed slight up/down motion, you can time the turn on the "up" - this reduces the normalforce and thus friction force!
It is a bit like "jumping" when turning, but not so much that you loose ground, just slightly to reduce normal force. This is not possible to do in slow motion, it has to be done fast. I think this is why it seems hard when you practice slow due to friction, but when you don't think about it and "just do it" - then you often to it faster, and if you then combine ti with a slight up is is easer. This requires thay you bend your knees and lower your stance just a little bit, so having a too upright stance this is harder.
