How to spar without sustaining major injuries?
- Thread starter TkJojo
- Start date
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Marginal
Senior Master
Just spar with live blades. Then regular sparring will seem trite.
Look everybody I was just being funny, you know I get it all the time when people gets bumps and bruises. Sometime they have to remember that what they are doing is actually a full contact activity. Sorry if I offended anyone. :asian:
Marginal
Senior Master
Nah, I was just poking fun at those guys you visited you who were shouting, "We fight with real knives!" as if that was some kind of great idea.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
hahahaha, just had a lolwut moment over this one! ^_^
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
d1jinx
Master Black Belt
I guess if you play football, youre not supposed to tackle???? Maybe play flag football. Then you can just yank eachothers flag.
Seriously, I know what is ment by sparring with people who try to hurt you when you spar. If talking dont help, and you tell them to take it down a notch... and they dont... Return the favor. KNOCK the **** out of them and see how they like it. I know most will dissagree, but if someone cannot show you the respect to tone it down and tries to hurt you everytime KNOCK the **** out of them. If they are better than you and you cant, punch them in the mouth... HARD. or kick them in the "lower area", or start blocking with elbows and shins. Some people fight like that because they know you cant hurt them. If they begin to associate that them hurting you results in them getting hurt... maybe it will stop. If it elevates to the next level and gets out of control, the instructor should step in and address BOTH of you.
I guess, like it or not, you need to stand up for yourself and make people realize when they spar you that they can also get hurt.
Seriously, I know what is ment by sparring with people who try to hurt you when you spar. If talking dont help, and you tell them to take it down a notch... and they dont... Return the favor. KNOCK the **** out of them and see how they like it. I know most will dissagree, but if someone cannot show you the respect to tone it down and tries to hurt you everytime KNOCK the **** out of them. If they are better than you and you cant, punch them in the mouth... HARD. or kick them in the "lower area", or start blocking with elbows and shins. Some people fight like that because they know you cant hurt them. If they begin to associate that them hurting you results in them getting hurt... maybe it will stop. If it elevates to the next level and gets out of control, the instructor should step in and address BOTH of you.
I guess, like it or not, you need to stand up for yourself and make people realize when they spar you that they can also get hurt.
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JWLuiza
Black Belt
I agree and disagree.
I've known students who don't get the fact that if they step out of line, I go over beat the crap out of them, I'm "saying" to them they should stop. That's the old school, macho way of doing it.
I've also known students who even talking to them doesn't work. They just don't have the interpersonal skills to adapt to a safe training environment.
But an underbelt shouldn't have to come to a message board to deal with this crap. Furthermore, malicious response on her part could be actionable if she steps out of the bounds of the drill. Just a bad deal all the way around.
Best way I was ever put in my place:
I'm 15, 6'7" 150lbs. I'm twice as tall as a nidan. I fight brownbelts all the time. I think I need to hit HARD. Kick the crap out of people.
I throw two kicks. She gets a funny face. Stops the fight.
Looks right at me, smiles and says: "I can kick hard too."
Somehow my teenage self figured out I may want to adjust to the situation.
karatemom
Green Belt
Adding my 2 cents here....
In ITA TKD sparring starts at green belt level. I've never been of the opinion that the higher ranks should try to "beat up" the lower ranks to "teach" them how to spar. I had an issue w/ a bb when I was green belt who kept hitting me in the head over and over hard because I didn't block and I was just learning. It really upset me, I talked to my instructor who recommended that I talk to the bb and I went to him and asked him to help me learn what I need to be doing, we've gotten along fine ever since. One thing I tend to do because I'm short is move in on people which is sometimes considered aggressive and where I tend to get hit more so I have to do better at blocking and getting out of the way. The other thing is I've had to spar a lot of teenagers and have had to tell them to tone it down because I'm in my 40's and not interested in MMA type sparring or people trying to intentionally hurt me and I need to be able to go to work tomorrow. All that being said, it is a contact sport and you will get hit. Higher ranks should have waaaaay better self-control than the lower ranks. Sparring is a continual learning process and I don't spar each person the same way, it depends on their rank and how they spar but if I am with an new green belt I go more into a teaching mode more than a full out sparring mode unless they are ready for that. I still have a lot to learn at 2nd Degree BB - there will always be room for improvement. Hang in there and talk to your instructor, the other students and let them know how you feel, if they don't listen and take the opportunity to teach from this then you should find another place to train. Again, this is my opinion based on my own experience with TKD.
In ITA TKD sparring starts at green belt level. I've never been of the opinion that the higher ranks should try to "beat up" the lower ranks to "teach" them how to spar. I had an issue w/ a bb when I was green belt who kept hitting me in the head over and over hard because I didn't block and I was just learning. It really upset me, I talked to my instructor who recommended that I talk to the bb and I went to him and asked him to help me learn what I need to be doing, we've gotten along fine ever since. One thing I tend to do because I'm short is move in on people which is sometimes considered aggressive and where I tend to get hit more so I have to do better at blocking and getting out of the way. The other thing is I've had to spar a lot of teenagers and have had to tell them to tone it down because I'm in my 40's and not interested in MMA type sparring or people trying to intentionally hurt me and I need to be able to go to work tomorrow. All that being said, it is a contact sport and you will get hit. Higher ranks should have waaaaay better self-control than the lower ranks. Sparring is a continual learning process and I don't spar each person the same way, it depends on their rank and how they spar but if I am with an new green belt I go more into a teaching mode more than a full out sparring mode unless they are ready for that. I still have a lot to learn at 2nd Degree BB - there will always be room for improvement. Hang in there and talk to your instructor, the other students and let them know how you feel, if they don't listen and take the opportunity to teach from this then you should find another place to train. Again, this is my opinion based on my own experience with TKD.
This has been a bit of a problem in our club at late. (not so much now but last year their were a few injuries). Therefore we don't get nearly as much sparring in as we used to.
Usually its the more experienced people that seem to be lacking control as well. I like to think I have very good control (to the point where people tell me not to be afraid to make a bit more contact). Regularly during sparring I will perform what I believe to be a "scoring" kick whether it be round or straight to either body or head but I delib leave it a fraction short or touch with no penetration then cop a fairly hard spinning back kick to the guts as a result and end up winded. Always followed by the resultant sorry from the other person.
If you cant control your spin kicks then don't spar with it until you can. Likewise with any technique. Just like if you don't believe you can land safely from a throw/takedown. Please let me know beforehand so we can work around it. Nobody likes unnecessary injuries
Usually its the more experienced people that seem to be lacking control as well. I like to think I have very good control (to the point where people tell me not to be afraid to make a bit more contact). Regularly during sparring I will perform what I believe to be a "scoring" kick whether it be round or straight to either body or head but I delib leave it a fraction short or touch with no penetration then cop a fairly hard spinning back kick to the guts as a result and end up winded. Always followed by the resultant sorry from the other person.
If you cant control your spin kicks then don't spar with it until you can. Likewise with any technique. Just like if you don't believe you can land safely from a throw/takedown. Please let me know beforehand so we can work around it. Nobody likes unnecessary injuries
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
I wondered where you were!
Did you enjoy the snow?
:-offtopic (always wanted to use this, my babbling, not her post!)
But it really boils down to communication an respect.
Karatemom I am a little congused about sparring so late in one training. Do you do any S.D. and if so is it actual takedowns and throws? You see people are under the impression when you reach green belt which is mid belt for me means you have the common sense to know a bit about distance and moving while sparring. I believe a club can have both id it is worked on from the beginning of ones training.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
It takes about 4 month continuous training to get your ITA green belt.
First we condition our students with one steps - sort of - to feet and fists coming their way
(there is one takedown in the yellow one steps...)
Karatemom, it's a common misconception that MMA sparring is full on and people get hurt. It's only full contact in the actual competition, if anything it's more controlled and less contact than your average club sparring. Fighters are working on specifics such as using angles, takedowns, judging disatances, techniques, speed etc not on whether they can take a hit. No fighter needs to have to pull out of a fight because of injuries incurred in training. If the teenagers and yourself think 'full on' sparring is 'MMA type' sparring then you are all mistaken.
In our traditional classes one learns to spar from the start of your training at white belt. By green you will have a good idea of what to do.
In our traditional classes one learns to spar from the start of your training at white belt. By green you will have a good idea of what to do.
It takes about 4 month continuous training to get your ITA green belt.
First we condition our students with one steps - sort of - to feet and fists coming their way
(there is one takedown in the yellow one steps...)
You got to be kidding me in my school it takes about 18 to 24 months to get to green. In four months you are maybe ready for a yellow stripe, my beginners belts stay that way for at;east a year. Why doeas the ITA geet people to mid belt so fast, not knocking it but trying to ynderstand the way of teaching, I believe the basics take a longtime to get prety good at it.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
*Shrug*
lately the philosophy behind the organization has baffled me.
Anyhow. Is there a reason not to award belts in a quick fashion?
It takes about 2 years to get your BB, and then you can grind time and such till you are old and die (and not to mention politics) to get 9 degrees of black under your belt.
When you look at it side by side, the time to get aproprate ranks (6th is called Master, with about 20 years training, other companies have you be a 4th with 20 years..) it come out to about the same.
It's deco, really, the rank is what you make it.
White you learn your stances and strikes plus a front kick, add a round kick at yellow, sparring at green (4 month at green belt)
The group has produced some good artists, so it can't be all bad.
JWLuiza
Black Belt
They may not have a linear belt progression. I know my school doesn't.
10th Kyu to 8th Kyu: 2-5 months
8th Kyu to 6th Kyu: 3-4 months
At this point they have been training from a little under half a year to a full year and are "Green Belt" but are moving into the full curriculum (can now learn a limited set of throws, locks, learning falling etc.)
6th Kyu to 4th Kyu: 6 months - 1 year
4th Kyu to 2nd Kyu: 1 - 2 years
2nd Kyu to 1st Kyu: 1 - 2 years
1st Kyu to Black: 1 - 2 years
In my school I would say 4th Kyu/Gup/Grade would be mid and reached in about a year to a year an a half. Black coming 3 to 5 years after reaching 4th Kyu.
10th Kyu to 8th Kyu: 2-5 months
8th Kyu to 6th Kyu: 3-4 months
At this point they have been training from a little under half a year to a full year and are "Green Belt" but are moving into the full curriculum (can now learn a limited set of throws, locks, learning falling etc.)
6th Kyu to 4th Kyu: 6 months - 1 year
4th Kyu to 2nd Kyu: 1 - 2 years
2nd Kyu to 1st Kyu: 1 - 2 years
1st Kyu to Black: 1 - 2 years
In my school I would say 4th Kyu/Gup/Grade would be mid and reached in about a year to a year an a half. Black coming 3 to 5 years after reaching 4th Kyu.
I agree with you, there seems to be an almost indecent rush to get people to their black belts in many schools. Four months to green is almost indecently fast and just two years to black is far faster than anywhere I know. The first four months in places I've been in Wado Ryu, TSD and TKD you haven't graded at all yet, the first belt is usually graded for after 4-6 months. There's a satisfaction in taking your time to get good solid basics under your belt!
myusername
Brown Belt
TKJOJO - My advice is to communicate with your sparring partners if they going to hard. Simply tell them and you will probably be surprised as to their response. Most people don't know that they are going in too hard and the excessive contact bar can be different depending on the individual.
Also communicate with your instructor. But pick the right time if you are going to challenge an instruction! The right time will probably be before or after a lesson.
There is a lot of macho nonsense in this game sometimes that can easily be avoided with effective ordinary communication. So many times I have watched a match and seen somebody recieve a hit that they obviously considered to be too hard so immediately give their opponent a hard dig back. The original offender, probably unaware that their initial strike was considered too hard, then gets offended and hits back harder. And so the esculation begins! Both competitors thinking that they are only hitting hard because the other is hitting too hard when all one of them needed to do was just say something.
Myself, if I am training with a beginner who is swinging or someone who lacks control then I will say to them "try not to hit so hard as when you get to competition the ref will deduct points for excessive contact" It is hard for some to learn that control especially if they are carrying some weight or lack flexibility. Therefore I never take it personally and I will go extra light on them to role model good behaviour.
A pity more people don't just talk to each other!
What I would say is that accidents do happen and doing a martial art you can expect a few bruises.
I do disagree with the idea that you are to expect hard contact in a semi contact sport sparring session as you need to learn how to take a knock for "the street" as some have suggested earlier. Semi contact free sparring is just that and has absolutely nothing to do with self defence.
If you are to be training and conditioning yourself for a hard knock for self defence purposes then that should be well explained to you first so that there are no surprises.
Also communicate with your instructor. But pick the right time if you are going to challenge an instruction! The right time will probably be before or after a lesson.
There is a lot of macho nonsense in this game sometimes that can easily be avoided with effective ordinary communication. So many times I have watched a match and seen somebody recieve a hit that they obviously considered to be too hard so immediately give their opponent a hard dig back. The original offender, probably unaware that their initial strike was considered too hard, then gets offended and hits back harder. And so the esculation begins! Both competitors thinking that they are only hitting hard because the other is hitting too hard when all one of them needed to do was just say something.
Myself, if I am training with a beginner who is swinging or someone who lacks control then I will say to them "try not to hit so hard as when you get to competition the ref will deduct points for excessive contact" It is hard for some to learn that control especially if they are carrying some weight or lack flexibility. Therefore I never take it personally and I will go extra light on them to role model good behaviour.
A pity more people don't just talk to each other!
What I would say is that accidents do happen and doing a martial art you can expect a few bruises.
I do disagree with the idea that you are to expect hard contact in a semi contact sport sparring session as you need to learn how to take a knock for "the street" as some have suggested earlier. Semi contact free sparring is just that and has absolutely nothing to do with self defence.
If you are to be training and conditioning yourself for a hard knock for self defence purposes then that should be well explained to you first so that there are no surprises.
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