how to get kias louder
- Thread starter thepanjr
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I'm sure there is a volume switch somewhere...where is that manual? TW
ahem... :feedtroll
- Thread Starter
- #5
im 14 and i been for karate for 5 years really unworthy karateka fo about 4 years. Now im trying to catch up for those years of acting like afool. IN want a good kia. it hard. everyone in my class has a good kia. I nvr realized how bad im a t kiaing
You're dot is red because people have been giving you bad reputation....
Most likely for posting all over without ever contributing to any discussion...
Most likely for posting all over without ever contributing to any discussion...
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2004
- Messages
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- Reaction score
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I didn't give you any bad rep. Since you are 14...a male? Breathe in deep, breathe out slow, do that a few times. Now if you were yelling across the street so your little brother doesn't walk across, you would breathe in deep, and the air from your diaphragm would come up and out as you yell. We yell AIHH!!!-so it is a sharp I hhh sound. But it is loud and sharp at first and slowly letting out sound with the air. If your voice hasn't changed yet, it may be high still or squeak, or you may have changed to a lower voice now, which is better. As you do forms, as you strike, practice...go out in the garage if you have one and practice yelling...maybe tell your Mom first what you are doing. Better? 
And look in your User CP, I sent you a helpful PM. TW
And look in your User CP, I sent you a helpful PM. TW
you might also consider talking with your instructor about it.
S
Sam
Guest
From a post I did on another site:
What I will describe here is one veiwpoint on the kiai, so many will probably disagree. Although this is a long post, I'll try to keep it as short as possible by not going into intricate detail.
There's a lot of myth circulating around a kiai. Part of this is from MA history where a physiological reaction is explained from a spiritual perspective. This is understandable as there is much about the internal workings of the body that were uknown at the time.
Before talking about what makes a correct kiai and why, let's look at the physiological effects of a correct kiai. The effect on the practitioner is two fold. With a correct kiai, there will be a slight flush in the practitioner, the pulse rate elevates slightly, and in some cases, the hair on the back of the neck or even the arms will stand up. This is very similar to the reaction caused by an adrenaline rush. Some studies were performed that showed certain noises can produce an adrenaline rush in the body, regardless of the source. They also found deep regulated breathing allows you to "control" the adrenaline rush.
Note the effects of breathing in the following quote: "As described by Jim Viceroy, a Chicago-area exercise physiologist and sports psychology consultant, the body works like a piston-stretching and contracting, storing energy and releasing it-while executing a volleyball slam.
Says Viceroy: "Your body goes through a series of cocking all your joints.
Your hips cocks and your trunk cocks, your elbow and your wrist-like rubber
bands. You store elastic energy, you create the most tension possible in the
body, and you increase the range of motion, including the chest. By taking a
nice deep breath, you're presetting your muscles, stretching them. And so
when you exhale, if you do it correctly, you'll get this whole marshaling of
all those muscles at the same time, and this generates enormous force.
Therefore you have more velocity, more power.
The effect is partially psychological; much like the kiai, the shout of
the martial artist, it breaks down inhibitions and intimidates the opponent.
Of course, the force generated by the kiai would propel a backhanded tennis
ball over the fence."
Comment- earlier in the article, they explain that a "nice deep breath" means breathing with the diaphragm.
Summary- The physiological/psychological effects of a kiai performed at the right time, help synchronize the movement with the kiai, firing the "cocked" muscles and creating a strong mental intent that breaks down inhibitions that would keep you from releasing your full strength.
The rapid release of breath in the kiai, coupled with the increaed adrenaline results in a noticeable jump in power (increased strength from increased adrenaline is a well documented phenomena). In adddition, the forced deep inhalation also helps the practitioner utilize the adrenaline rush in a "fight" response rather than a flight response. One of the things kata practice does is aid in teaching you to control your breathing and link it to your movements.
He did mention the effect on the opponent. Let's take a quick look at that. Short, loud noises create the fight or flight reaction. This happens in species other than man. Example of such noises would be the initial clap of thunder, a pot dropped on the floor behind you, someone sneaking up behind you and yelling 'boo' loudly.
Many times this will cause a momentary hesitation before the flight reaction takes over. The same thing happens with a proper kiai. It will induce a temporary "flight response" in your opponent, which can cause a pause in their movement and thought processes. This gives you a great advantage. The only thing is, the more often you kiai against an opponent, the less effect it has.
I use this as a training tool with my students. I have literally stopped them in their tracks during ippon on either their attack or counter. I work with them and tell them to learn to continue in spite of the kiai. They get better over time, although a kiai at an unexpected moment can still freeze them. You can see it rob power from a more advanced student's technique when delivered unexpectedly. (Stand behind them and kiai).
The fact that a strong kiai breaks down inhibitions can be seen when teaching people to kiai. Hence- the teaching that a strong kiai= a strong fighting spirit. A beginners initial kiais are weak and ineffective. Making them stand and practice their kiai can often induce giggles and smiles in beginners. Ask them why and they'll say "it just seems funny". When they can get past the social conditioning (don't yell or raise your voice) and really cut loose with a good kiai, this mentally sets them up for delivering full power techniques. I get a chuckle when I see a beginner produce their first good kiai and actually startle themselves
Now onto a proper kiai-
First- the air should be forced out using the diaphragm
Second- it should be SHORT. No Bruce Lee drawn out waahhh's, eeee's and oooohhh's. (sorry BL fans, but that was for the movies).
Third- it should be LOUD
Fourth- the sound should be produced without any consonants. The reason for this is making a consonant sound like the 'k' in kiai restricts the breathing and slows down the expulsion of air
Fifth- do NOT exhale 100% of yoru air. Anyone that's been hit with no air in their lungs will tell you it's worse than being hit with your lungs full. Keep 10-15% of your air.
Think of your kiai as a "Clap of thunder" or the sound of a gunshot. It should crack the silence like a whip.
What I will describe here is one veiwpoint on the kiai, so many will probably disagree. Although this is a long post, I'll try to keep it as short as possible by not going into intricate detail.
There's a lot of myth circulating around a kiai. Part of this is from MA history where a physiological reaction is explained from a spiritual perspective. This is understandable as there is much about the internal workings of the body that were uknown at the time.
Before talking about what makes a correct kiai and why, let's look at the physiological effects of a correct kiai. The effect on the practitioner is two fold. With a correct kiai, there will be a slight flush in the practitioner, the pulse rate elevates slightly, and in some cases, the hair on the back of the neck or even the arms will stand up. This is very similar to the reaction caused by an adrenaline rush. Some studies were performed that showed certain noises can produce an adrenaline rush in the body, regardless of the source. They also found deep regulated breathing allows you to "control" the adrenaline rush.
Note the effects of breathing in the following quote: "As described by Jim Viceroy, a Chicago-area exercise physiologist and sports psychology consultant, the body works like a piston-stretching and contracting, storing energy and releasing it-while executing a volleyball slam.
Says Viceroy: "Your body goes through a series of cocking all your joints.
Your hips cocks and your trunk cocks, your elbow and your wrist-like rubber
bands. You store elastic energy, you create the most tension possible in the
body, and you increase the range of motion, including the chest. By taking a
nice deep breath, you're presetting your muscles, stretching them. And so
when you exhale, if you do it correctly, you'll get this whole marshaling of
all those muscles at the same time, and this generates enormous force.
Therefore you have more velocity, more power.
The effect is partially psychological; much like the kiai, the shout of
the martial artist, it breaks down inhibitions and intimidates the opponent.
Of course, the force generated by the kiai would propel a backhanded tennis
ball over the fence."
Comment- earlier in the article, they explain that a "nice deep breath" means breathing with the diaphragm.
Summary- The physiological/psychological effects of a kiai performed at the right time, help synchronize the movement with the kiai, firing the "cocked" muscles and creating a strong mental intent that breaks down inhibitions that would keep you from releasing your full strength.
The rapid release of breath in the kiai, coupled with the increaed adrenaline results in a noticeable jump in power (increased strength from increased adrenaline is a well documented phenomena). In adddition, the forced deep inhalation also helps the practitioner utilize the adrenaline rush in a "fight" response rather than a flight response. One of the things kata practice does is aid in teaching you to control your breathing and link it to your movements.
He did mention the effect on the opponent. Let's take a quick look at that. Short, loud noises create the fight or flight reaction. This happens in species other than man. Example of such noises would be the initial clap of thunder, a pot dropped on the floor behind you, someone sneaking up behind you and yelling 'boo' loudly.
Many times this will cause a momentary hesitation before the flight reaction takes over. The same thing happens with a proper kiai. It will induce a temporary "flight response" in your opponent, which can cause a pause in their movement and thought processes. This gives you a great advantage. The only thing is, the more often you kiai against an opponent, the less effect it has.
I use this as a training tool with my students. I have literally stopped them in their tracks during ippon on either their attack or counter. I work with them and tell them to learn to continue in spite of the kiai. They get better over time, although a kiai at an unexpected moment can still freeze them. You can see it rob power from a more advanced student's technique when delivered unexpectedly. (Stand behind them and kiai).
The fact that a strong kiai breaks down inhibitions can be seen when teaching people to kiai. Hence- the teaching that a strong kiai= a strong fighting spirit. A beginners initial kiais are weak and ineffective. Making them stand and practice their kiai can often induce giggles and smiles in beginners. Ask them why and they'll say "it just seems funny". When they can get past the social conditioning (don't yell or raise your voice) and really cut loose with a good kiai, this mentally sets them up for delivering full power techniques. I get a chuckle when I see a beginner produce their first good kiai and actually startle themselves
Now onto a proper kiai-
First- the air should be forced out using the diaphragm
Second- it should be SHORT. No Bruce Lee drawn out waahhh's, eeee's and oooohhh's. (sorry BL fans, but that was for the movies).
Third- it should be LOUD
Fourth- the sound should be produced without any consonants. The reason for this is making a consonant sound like the 'k' in kiai restricts the breathing and slows down the expulsion of air
Fifth- do NOT exhale 100% of yoru air. Anyone that's been hit with no air in their lungs will tell you it's worse than being hit with your lungs full. Keep 10-15% of your air.
Think of your kiai as a "Clap of thunder" or the sound of a gunshot. It should crack the silence like a whip.
- Thread Starter
- #15
allready did talk to my instructor. he told me it will come out by my self. it really hard for my kias to get loud. If i did get my kias really good then i have to some way add them into the katas. well thanks everyone fo r ure help. Oh no if i practice out side ppl will look and inside i would be bothering the downstairs. Hey i can practice in the dojo. A white belt would scare himself with a good kia.I am not surewhat will happen when i make a good kia. THanks agian. Ya
i on to training. I go to the dojo today. C ya
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
thepanjr said:
This leads me to think that he doesn't really know what he's talking about... Certainly the vocalized sound resulting from a kiai (note the spelling) is unique to most individuals (you don't actually say "kiai" when executing a kiai, nor do you say anything else), but there are guidelines as outlined upthread...
They don't have to be loud. For that matter, they don't have to have sound at all... When you begin working on kiai, at first they are loudly vocalized shouts. Then they become loud exhalations. Eventually they quiet down to the point of inaudibility. In time, they are silent and expressed in different ways. Don't worry about loud, worry about "right."
Kiai have their place in kata. Don't just slip them in wherever you like. If the kata is taught without kiai, ask your instructor where they are supposed to go. If he doesn't teach kata with kiai, or doesn't know where they go, slipping them in wherever you like isn't really appropriate. You should search elsewhere for the information...
If you are only 14, in addition to your martial arts training, spend a little time on your spelling and grammar. When expressing your thoughts in written form, the perception the reader has of the writer is directly linked to the manner in which the writer presents his/her thoughts. Yours are barely intelligible, and had questions like this not presented themselves repeatedly over the years, I suspect most readers would be hard pressed to understand what you were asking about in the first place.
There is an old samurai saying "Pen and sword in accord," "bun bu ichi" in Japanese... It implies that martial and non-martial training are equally important for the development of a warrior.
Bammx2
2nd Black Belt
What a coincidence!
When I was about your age,I found this really kool thing called a DIAPHRAGM.
It's right below your lungs.
Go out into a field,empy room...some place where you won't attract attention.....and YELL AS HARD AND AS LOUD AS YOU CAN!!!!!
or yell into a pillow
Put your hand on you chest,about 3-4 inches below your breastbone.
You will feel it tighten up.That's your diaphragm.
You'll find that what you are doing now is yelling though your lungs.
When you do what I said...you will feel it a little lower and that's where you want to concentrate your breathing at.
I didn't learn how to "kia" from any of my instructors....I learned it from a singing coach who specialised in opera!
It will take a little bit of practice...about 10 minutes or so, to get the feeling..then you just work it from there.
We used to call the air in the diaphragm "spare air". With more practice,you can actually hold air in your diaphragm and still breath through your lungs.But it only lasts for so long.
Sounds rediculous? Go ask an opera singer...
When I was about your age,I found this really kool thing called a DIAPHRAGM.
It's right below your lungs.
Go out into a field,empy room...some place where you won't attract attention.....and YELL AS HARD AND AS LOUD AS YOU CAN!!!!!
or yell into a pillow
Put your hand on you chest,about 3-4 inches below your breastbone.
You will feel it tighten up.That's your diaphragm.
You'll find that what you are doing now is yelling though your lungs.
When you do what I said...you will feel it a little lower and that's where you want to concentrate your breathing at.
I didn't learn how to "kia" from any of my instructors....I learned it from a singing coach who specialised in opera!
It will take a little bit of practice...about 10 minutes or so, to get the feeling..then you just work it from there.
We used to call the air in the diaphragm "spare air". With more practice,you can actually hold air in your diaphragm and still breath through your lungs.But it only lasts for so long.
Sounds rediculous? Go ask an opera singer...
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Bammx2 said:
I hope you washed your hands after touching it...
Oh, that one...
Except yelling is still a vocalization, at a significantly louder level, but a vocalization just the same... If you can feel the kiai in your throat, and your voice is hoarse afterwards, you are doing it incorrectly.
You can't "yell through your lungs." With either vocalization or exhalation, the lungs are the storehouse for air that is projected through the esophogus. The difference is whether the larynx is relaxed or tightened; one allows for free passage of air, the other produces vocalized sounds.
The breathing techniques of singing and martial arts do share quite a bit in common.
You do not store, hold, or otherwise contain air in the diaphragm. The diaphragm is a muscle below the pneumothoracic cavity that, when contracted, produces a vacuum in the lungs which causes inspiration (inhaling). When the diaphragm relaxes, the natural tension of the intercostal (between the rib) muscles produces pressure that "squeezes" the air out of the lungs producing expiration (exhaling).
What you are referring to is learning how to better manage exhalation while increasing lung capacity through exercise. Right idea, wrong explanation.
thepanjr said:
The wonderful thing is, like your martial arts skills and understanding, you can change this. Accepting mediocrity is unbecoming to a martial artist. If better is attainable, good is insufficient. Do not accept your shortcomings in written communication. Learn to write better, learn to increase your handwriting skills, and increase your vocabulary. There really is no excuse for someone to be barely fluent in their native language, especially since it is the one single academic skill we use every single day...
Bammx2
2nd Black Belt
Gee,thanks for clearing that up.
Now...any suggestions on how to answer the original question?
Side bar to everyone........
I have read a few posts by Penjr and I have seen a lot of replies about his grammar.
I think he knows this already and appreciates some of the input,but that should be put aside now and people should concentrate on helping him find the info he needs.
It's a sore spot for me since DYSLEXIA runs rampant through my family.
Grammar does NOT make you a better martial artist,your heart does.
Mr.Stone,this was not a jab at just you.
I totally respect what you had to say and I am keeping the info for future refference...and so I can translate it into more laymans terms.
Thank you again
:asian:
Now...any suggestions on how to answer the original question?
Side bar to everyone........
I have read a few posts by Penjr and I have seen a lot of replies about his grammar.
I think he knows this already and appreciates some of the input,but that should be put aside now and people should concentrate on helping him find the info he needs.
It's a sore spot for me since DYSLEXIA runs rampant through my family.
Grammar does NOT make you a better martial artist,your heart does.
Mr.Stone,this was not a jab at just you.
I totally respect what you had to say and I am keeping the info for future refference...and so I can translate it into more laymans terms.
Thank you again
:asian:
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