KenpoMaster805
2nd Black Belt
post more more more stuff
how to change belt on here???
- Thread starter thekaratekid
- Start date
This is only my fourth... I like them because they're so much cheaper than the Bugattis.
The ones I have are all less than 250ft... so they're fine for, say, cruising around the Caribbean.
You can't get up close to anything in a submarine. We tried one before we started diving.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
To the "keep posting stuff", is there an established system? e.g. XXX number of posts moves you up one rank? Is this posted somewhere? Or is progression a collective decision? Just curious.
It's built into the system. Like the belt around your waist, I wouldn't worry about it. Frankly, if you're posting specifically to get that 'rank' to change, the posts aren't likely to be worthwhile. Same as seeking rank for ranks sake in the real world.
No! (Can I accumulate the number of my post by just saying "no"?)
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Recreational diving certification depth is 144'. In very clear, deep water it is harder to maintain your depth visually. My deepest is 312' largely by accident. I was in the water south of the Exumas islands in a section of circular reef over 800' deep. Absolutely beautiful but disorienting. I lost track of my depth for about a minute and dropped about 100'. Had to have an extra tank brought down to me at 40' to regulate.
Depending on the agency and level of certification, the recreational dive limit is either 100' or 130'. There are no agencies I've ever heard of that endorse non-decompression dives to 144'.
So from your post, it sounds as if you were intentionally at over 200' on your dive. What technical training do you have, to be at that depth? What was your planned profile? How did you alter your deco schedule to compensate for losing control of your buoyancy? What gases were you breathing?
dvcochran
Grandmaster
I had to check with PADI. You are right about 130ā however AWOD certification allows 150ā. The profile was for 200ā for 4 minutes. It was a live aboard ship so we were a little loose with planning outside your dive partner. As stated earlier, additional tanks were brought down to 40ā for two of us. I think we decompressed at 100ā, 40ā, And 15ā. If memory serves.
I have AWOD, rescue, and technical structure certification. Been about 10 years since I have been down. Talking about it is giving me the fever.
I have AWOD, rescue, and technical structure certification. Been about 10 years since I have been down. Talking about it is giving me the fever.
If by AWOD, you mean Advanced Open Water, then no. PADI guidelines are 40' for OW, 100' for AOW, 130' for AOW plus Deep Diver. Anything below 130 is, by definition, a technical dive.
I am a tech diver. Cave, wreck, trimix, hypoxic trimix... everything except rebreathers. One thing you'll find true about tech divers in general is that we tend to be more than a little rigid when it comes to safety standards and skills. As an example, losing control of your buoyancy is unacceptable. As in, during a class, allowing your depth to deviate by 1 meter from the planned depth is grounds for failure.
In my first tech course, my final exam required me to make a deco stop (one of 5 stops) at 80', after a planned 30 minutes at 140 feet. We did that stop after going through a swim-through to a crater in the reef. The swim through continued out the other side. Into the current. So the current was being funneled in, to push me back into the tunnel from which we entered. There were two 6' men, with double and stage bottles, in that 10-12' diameter crater. Holding our positions horizontally as well as vertically. While we switched gasses and I shot an SMB. Without allowing my position to fluctuate by more than 1 meter. And just to make it more fun, the instructor triggered a regulator failure that had to be resolved.
That was my first, and easiest tech diving course. And that isn't an unusual story. It's what is required to be safe during technical diving. Don't get me started on things like a lost line drill with zero visibility.
What you planned was what is called a bounce dive. It's something no tech diver does, because they are, bluntly, a stupid thing to do. Bounce dives are characterized by people with inadequate training going to depths they don't know how to handle with inadequate gear, for a ridiculously short time - because you can't possibly see anything of the reef in four minutes, especially since you describe the reef as being SIX HUNDRED FEET from your planned depth. Good visibility is 200 feet. Exumas has good vis, and is typically in the 50-150 foot range. So 200 feet is certainly possible. Other than in a fresh water cave, I have never seen visibility of more than about 300 feet.
You didn't respond to my question about what gasses you were breathing, so I assume that means you were diving on air.
So what I'm hearing is that you planned a bounce dive to a depth well beyond your training. On air at 200 feet, you were narced. Absolutely. Guaranteed. So you didn't control your buoyancy and ended up at a full 150% of your planned (already too deep) dive. Your deco schedule (which, ok, you're going off memory - don't you keep logs???) doesn't fit any deco model I'm familiar with, even ignoring the fact that you didn't say how long the various stops were. Nor how you managed to communicate to the boat that you'd need more tanks.
Basically, based on what you've said, you did something incredibly foolish, and got lucky.
You're not alone. Other people do this. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you do not. A few years ago, a dive shop owner planned a similar (and similarly foolish) dive with one of her dive masters and her boyfriend. None of them had any tech training. Which is obvious by their choices. Their plan was (going from memory) a 240 foot bounce dive. Like you, people got narced and the dive didn't exactly go as planned. She's dead. The divemaster is a paraplegic. The boyfriend had a stroke from a CNS bubble.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Have no clue where you got the 600ā reference. You say you are familiar with the Exumas so maybe you have heard of the Blue Hole. As I initially said, I lost my depth, it wasnāt a bounce dive, we spent most of the time around 140ā. Yes it was on trimix. I donāt claim what I donāt know. My first certification was in TN, the latter two in Central America. I had no clue how much of a joke my state side cert. was. During my rescue diver the instructor told us he would cut some hoses (yes plural). We had about 8ā visibility and was at 60 under a wreck. It blew off my mask (which was a lost $100) but me and my buddy did fine.
From your own statement that you were on a reef in 800 feet of water. 800 feet minus your planned 200 feet is 600 feet.
There are at least a dozen places called "the blue hole" so that's fairly meaningless. The common composition of these holes results in the reef portion being close to the surface, well within recreational depths. There's no reef in the deep parts. Those are a cavern dive, with a couple including what would be classed as a cave.
4 minutes at 200 feet is a bounce dive. By definition.
If the dive was on trimix, what were you using for deco? How much gas were you carrying? How did you manage to tell people on the boat to bring more tanks? And, ultimately, losing control of your buoyancy is unacceptable for a tech dive. Of course, you've never mentioned having any actual tech training, and you're a little confused about what constitutes a recreational dive, too. So I'm led to believe that your training is purely recreational (as is true of about 95% of divers) and you had no business at that depth to begin with.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
I just tried to start a conversation because I am an avid diver. You in turn have.blown your chest out and challenged everything I have said. I have noticed you do this no matter what the topic. When I talk about brain surgery make sure and chime in. You sir are an ***. Those who canāt teach.
Who hasn't been in the water in ten years.
I'm happy to talk about diving. But if you tell me how you did something stupid, I'm going to say 'that was really stupid.'
You've described an insanely stupid dive, well beyond your training or skill level. How do you expect me to respond? I'd have much the same response to someone who advocated sparring with live steel. Or training handgun disarms with a real gun. Or doing a few shots and some Valium before going drag racing on the street in front of the elementary school.
It's quite possible I will. After 30+ years in the ER, it's something I have a passing familiarity with.
I've been called worse by better. Sticks and stones, and all that.
But it's probably best if they learn to punctuate before they start teaching.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
You must be very insecure and feel you have to over compensate for everything or have an over-functioning type A personality. You look for things to be critical of which can be ok if you know how to productively communicate. Even worse, you start picking things apart when you only have You do not. Now it's my of punctuation. Your conversations will never be productive because they are completely one sided. Not what people are looking for when on this site.
From the start, I explained the dive went wrong but it never went out of control. Most of the dive planning took place while cruising from place to place. Everyone had flags and one buddy from each group had comm. mask as well as the dive master. You weren't even there but all you have done if reiterate the "stupid" and simply imply I'm lying.
How many dives have you made? Unless I end up on a structure I do not count a dive where I walk into the water either from the bank or the beach. From my experience and enjoyment I think cave diving is stupid, but that is me.
I have done 12 recovery dives in the black water of the Tennessee River/Kentucky Lake. The dives were not deep, all less than 30' but it can be an unsettling experience not even being able to see your light when you fully extend your arm.. Two bodies, six boat motors, 4 fish finders/radar.
I assume you do not dive for a living?
From the start, I explained the dive went wrong but it never went out of control. Most of the dive planning took place while cruising from place to place. Everyone had flags and one buddy from each group had comm. mask as well as the dive master. You weren't even there but all you have done if reiterate the "stupid" and simply imply I'm lying.
How many dives have you made? Unless I end up on a structure I do not count a dive where I walk into the water either from the bank or the beach. From my experience and enjoyment I think cave diving is stupid, but that is me.
I have done 12 recovery dives in the black water of the Tennessee River/Kentucky Lake. The dives were not deep, all less than 30' but it can be an unsettling experience not even being able to see your light when you fully extend your arm.. Two bodies, six boat motors, 4 fish finders/radar.
I assume you do not dive for a living?
dvcochran
Grandmaster
You must be very insecure and feel you have to over compensate for everything or have an over-functioning type A personality. You look for things to be critical of which can be ok if you know how to productively communicate. You do not. Now it's my of punctuation. Your conversations will never be productive because they are completely one sided. Not what people are looking for when on this site.
From the start, I explained the dive went wrong but it never went out of control. Most of the dive planning took place while cruising from place to place. Everyone had flags and one buddy from each group had comm. mask as well as the dive master. You weren't even there but all you have done if reiterate the "stupid" and simply imply I'm lying.
How many dives have you made? Unless I end up on a structure I do not count a dive where I walk into the water either from the bank or the beach. From my experience and enjoyment I think cave diving is stupid, but that is me.
I have done 12 recovery dives in the black water of the Tennessee River/Kentucky Lake. The dives were not deep, all less than 30' but it can be an unsettling experience not even being able to see your light when you fully extend your arm.. Two bodies, six boat motors, 4 fish finders/radar.
I assume you do not dive for a living?
Please omit the "Even worse, you start picking things apart when you only have". Not sure where it came from.
From the start, I explained the dive went wrong but it never went out of control. Most of the dive planning took place while cruising from place to place. Everyone had flags and one buddy from each group had comm. mask as well as the dive master. You weren't even there but all you have done if reiterate the "stupid" and simply imply I'm lying.
How many dives have you made? Unless I end up on a structure I do not count a dive where I walk into the water either from the bank or the beach. From my experience and enjoyment I think cave diving is stupid, but that is me.
I have done 12 recovery dives in the black water of the Tennessee River/Kentucky Lake. The dives were not deep, all less than 30' but it can be an unsettling experience not even being able to see your light when you fully extend your arm.. Two bodies, six boat motors, 4 fish finders/radar.
I assume you do not dive for a living?
dvcochran
Grandmaster
You have been fixed on technical diving vs. recreational diving implying I am the prior who exceeded my skill set. I went to the PADI and NOAA sites.
PADI:
Started in the form of cave diving, technical scuba diving takes divers beyond the typical recreational limits and allows them to do more. Typically, one or more of the following has to occur for a dive to be considered technical diving:
Technical diving is a term used to describe all diving methods that exceed the limits imposed on depth and/or immersion time for recreational scuba diving. Technical diving often involves the use of special gas mixtures (rather than compressed air) for breathing. The type of gas mixture used is determined either by the maximum depth planned for the dive or by the length of time that the diver intends to spend underwater. While the recommended maximum depth for conventional scuba diving is 130 feet, technical divers may work in the range of 170 feet to 350 feet, sometimes even deeper.
Technical diving almost always requires one or more mandatory decompression "stops" upon ascent, during which the diver may change breathing gas mixes at least once. Decompression stops are necessary to allow gases that have accumulated in the diver's tissues (primarily nitrogen) to be released in a slow and controlled manner.
If an individual exceeds the limits of time and/or depth for recreational diving, and/or ascends too quickly, large bubbles can form in the tissues, joints, and bloodstream. The formation of these bubbles leads to an extremely painful condition known as Decompression Sickness (DCS), more commonly known as the "bends," which can cause paralysis and even death.
These parameters describe all of my dives unless they are freshwater where I use air. So call me what you want, I dive when/where I want and do not try to put a label on what type of dive it is.
PADI:
Started in the form of cave diving, technical scuba diving takes divers beyond the typical recreational limits and allows them to do more. Typically, one or more of the following has to occur for a dive to be considered technical diving:
- Diving beyond 40 metres/130 feet deep.
- Required stage decompression.
- Diving in an overhead environment beyond 40 linear metres/130 linear feet of the surface.
- Accelerated decompression and or the use of variable gas mixtures during the dive.
Technical diving is a term used to describe all diving methods that exceed the limits imposed on depth and/or immersion time for recreational scuba diving. Technical diving often involves the use of special gas mixtures (rather than compressed air) for breathing. The type of gas mixture used is determined either by the maximum depth planned for the dive or by the length of time that the diver intends to spend underwater. While the recommended maximum depth for conventional scuba diving is 130 feet, technical divers may work in the range of 170 feet to 350 feet, sometimes even deeper.
Technical diving almost always requires one or more mandatory decompression "stops" upon ascent, during which the diver may change breathing gas mixes at least once. Decompression stops are necessary to allow gases that have accumulated in the diver's tissues (primarily nitrogen) to be released in a slow and controlled manner.
If an individual exceeds the limits of time and/or depth for recreational diving, and/or ascends too quickly, large bubbles can form in the tissues, joints, and bloodstream. The formation of these bubbles leads to an extremely painful condition known as Decompression Sickness (DCS), more commonly known as the "bends," which can cause paralysis and even death.
These parameters describe all of my dives unless they are freshwater where I use air. So call me what you want, I dive when/where I want and do not try to put a label on what type of dive it is.
Both of you are out of your ficken' minds. I know this because I've seen The Shape of Water, Splash and the Poseidon Adventure several times.
Oh, and I used to watch Sea Hunt as a kid.
All this underwater talk makes me want to climb a mountain. And with a life vest on to boot.
Oh, and I used to watch Sea Hunt as a kid.
All this underwater talk makes me want to climb a mountain. And with a life vest on to boot.
Headhunter
Senior Master
How on earth did a thread about how to change a belt rank on an online profile turn into a row about diving
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