How safe is Jujutsu or Judo?

[K-man]

I probably should see doctor about my joint problems and fear it may get worse.

I'm scared to do any cardio exercises like running,jogging,treadmill, elliptical, jumping rope,going up hill so on because of the impact on the knees.

There is also the probability because of the sedentary lifestyle I may have done damage to my joints or I lack muscles for those work outs. And need to hit the gym and start lifting weights before I can do any thing.

I've been protecting my knees for years. I don't do a lot of running or jumping and I am wary of deep squats or explosive jumps. Skipping is ok as you are absorbing all the shock with the foot and calf, same for the elliptical cross trainer.

Hit the gym by all means but I would be staying clear of most of the weights.

 

[moonhill99]

This is very interesting just found this.


How common are knee problems in the city? Is there a specific age group afflicted by them?

Knee ailments have become very common in the last few years. They usually affect the age group between 40 and 70 years. Stiffness of the knees, knee pain, problems with the knee cap are common complaints that people have. In recent years, we have observed a large number of patients from the IT background as well. People in their late 30s suffering from knee-related ailments are turning up at clinics. The number of such cases has increased two-fold now.

What are the common causes for the increasing cases of knee problems?
There are two cardinal causes for knee problems. In case of senior citizens, natural wear and tear of the knee joint is responsible for the various ailments of the knee. Usage of the Indian-type toilet, old injuries and neglect of nagging pains aggravate the condition.

However, in case of the younger generation, a sedentary lifestyle is responsible for the various knee problems. Those in the IT sector, who work for more than 12-15 hours a day and sit in the same position for a long time, are accelerating the wear and tear of their knee joints. Also, most of them do not exercise at all.


What lifestyle changes do you suggest to avoid the early onset of knee problems?
Half an hour of daily exercise is the only way of avoiding knee problems. This exercise can be in the form of yoga, cycling, static cycling or jogging. Also, in between working hours it is a good idea to take short breaks. The only silver lining is that awareness among youngsters about knee problems is quite high.

Can you share five symptoms of the onset of serious knee problems?
Recurrent pain in the knee, stiffening, sudden change in gait, locked knee and swelling are the five major symptoms of the onset of knee problems. It is advisable to seek professional help in case you are suffering from any one of these symptoms.

Sedentary lifestyle to blame for knee ailments Latest News Updates at Daily News Analysis

 

[pgsmith]

Sedentary lifestyle to blame for knee ailments ...

That's like proclaiming that overeating is responsible for obesity problems.

 

[K-man]

That's like proclaiming that overeating is responsible for obesity problems.

And we all know that just isn't right ....

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sedentary lifestyle to blame for knee ailments Latest News Updates at Daily News Analysis

So is getting kicked in the knee more than once and tearing the meniscus in two places working in the house and catching yourself as you fall on one bent leg and there are a lot of runners and I know a ex-pro soccer player that have knee replacements..... heck do taijiquan with improper form and that can mess up your knees too..... I did not read the article.... but there are things other than a sedentary lifestyle that can lead to knee ailments

 

[Steve]

Moonhill, I think you're getting a little mixed up with different things. Arthritis is one thing. Joint problems can be related to arthritis or they can be a result of a host of other issues, some genetic and others not.

As Xue correctly points out, there are a lot of ways to screw up your joints, particularly your knees. We all have to do things that are appropriate for our age and our fitness level. And as I suggested before, if you have concerns regarding your health or fitness level, you really, really need to talk to a qualified doctor.

If nothing else, when your doctor tells you that there's nothing wrong with your knees or anything else, it will eliminate some potential excuses you might have about whether you "can" or "can't" do something. While it's true that there are people who can't participate in some activities because they have physical limitations. The majority, in my experience, are just making excuses.

 

[Langenschwert]

Good point on doing things appropriate to you age and ability. I'm 42, so I can't so Judo like someone in their 20's who's super-fit. That's just the way it is. I break easier than I did when I was younger. But I still train. I go to learn the art, not become a living engine of destruction. I don't do Judo tournaments, and I'm (now) careful about who I do randori with. Barring any strange medical condition that your doctor might find, there's no reason you can't do Judo. If anything, it will make you into the type of person you never thought you could be. There's tough, and then there's Judo tough. Maybe one day I'll get there. If I don't train, I never will.

 

[lklawson]

The biggest issues of joint damage in Judo are to the knee. These are usually hyper-extended knees from throws gone wrong during shiai or when doing randori with people who don't know the difference between randori and shiai. Yeah, blown out knees suck and can be debilitating for life. The problem isn't the martial art, it's how some people try to practice it. Do you think Kano kept doing full-on shiai style fight'n as he aged? Heck, no. He adjusted his Judo to be a healthful benefit for him. There's some evidence that he indented Judo to be a full-range exercise system applicable to everyone, even as they age and that shiai was only supposed to be a small facet, mostly for young bucks. If you read what many Judo instructors wrote in the 60's, they were often lamenting that the inclusion of Judo into the Olympics was damaging the art and reducing the range of students interested in and continuing their practice of Judo. In 1964, "bird boned" Barney Fife could safely practice Judo.

Same thing goes for "joint locking" arts like Aikido. Sure joints can be damaged but mostly be people trying techniques they're not ready for and haven't been properly trained in or by training partners going too heavy on ego and hammering the lock in too hard, too fast. What's the blink'n point of that?

Yeah, you can be injured in an accident while out hiking just as easily as doing martial arts. But like Langenschwert says, if you want to get injured don't pay too close attention to who you work with and how you train.

If you pay attention, you'll generally avoid most of the serious injuries, in life and in martial arts.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Langenschwert]

when doing randori with people who don't know the difference between randori and shiai.

That's what happened to me. The thing about full-contact martial arts is that they attract their fair share of meatheads. My co-instructor has about a decade of MMA training under his belt, and left in part due to meatheads in the club.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Competitive Judo brown belt/ikkyu here. 22 years old. I have some pretty nasty arthritis and genetic joint issues, but here's where I'm at.

In the morning, I can't take stairs like a normal person. I have to put both feet on one stair while my ankles warm up enough to move properly. A dull ache in my wrists is a great day, on a bad one I can't close my hands. Pretty much I'm lucky when I can hold a pen My knuckles hurt all the time, if they didn't I'd assume I'd cut my fingers off. I wear knee pads under my Gi as a matter of course, it's too painful now to have my knees drive into the mat without extra padding. I haven't trained without tape somewhere on my body in about three years. That's all general overuse/abuse stuff.

I've rehabbed both knees, the right one twice, and my right shoulder. No surgery yet . All of those are from Shiai.

Judo has a culture based around sparring and combat. Even at clinics, randori is commonplace. Not many martial artists spar as much as judoka do and almost none go 100% as often as judoka do. This comes with getting hurt and feeling banged up.

This is, of course, from a competitive perspective. Shiai isn't necessarily a part of Judo but IMHO randori is.

EDIT: In the interest of total clarity, I do a lot of heavy barbell work for strength and conditioning. However, I have never been hurt in the weight room. Always on the mat and usually in competition.

 

[Sub Zero]

I probably should see doctor about my joint problems and fear it may get worse.

I'm scared to do any cardio exercises like running,jogging,treadmill, elliptical, jumping rope,going up hill so on because of the impact on the knees.

There is also the probability because of the sedentary lifestyle I may have done damage to my joints or I lack muscles for those work outs. And need to hit the gym and start lifting weights before I can do any thing.

I feel you on that mate. Martial arts, with BJJ/JJJ the only form of cardio I can do. I did some sprint drills in my crossfit class and it severely buggered uo my bad knee. It was killing me for three weeks. I finally manage to help it by doing one legged squats. That was the third time running did that to me. After the last time I just wrote about I am done doing that.

 

[SallyWilliams]

And you know what? You can sit in a chair and read books for the rest of your life and you can still get arthritis, you can still have heart attacks and strokes and I can guarantee that at some point in time you will die.

So let's see if there can be a case mounted for jujutsu or judo. Mostly these throws are trained on good mats so although there is a reasonable amount of falls they are break falls and rolls so they become part of the exercise giving an aerobic workout as well as the physical, and the force of the fall is largely taken by the mat.

Joint locks? Sure they put pressure on the joints but they also act to stretch everything as well. The more you practise the better you are at having them applied and in the case of shoulders you may well find you develop greater flexibility.

As to the very high kicks, spinning kicks, rounded kicks, jumping kicks and flying kicks and such, why do them at all?

From a personal perspective I damaged my back over 50 years ago as a gymnast. It plays up from time to time but is no worse now than it was decades ago. I have a weak elbow. It wasn't caused by any of my training but was damaged by a Hapkido guy, 4th dan, who couldn't make his technique work. My fault for telling him I would go with him and he applied full force on a compliant partner. Not the fault of martial arts, just an ego problem for the practitioner.

My shoulders? They are as stiff as stiff but I reckon they would be worse without the stretching they get when we are applying arm locks. Knees? Sure they creak and groan but I reckon they were damaged more by lifting heavy weights than caused by any martial art. Mind you, I don't like kicking air like you see in a lot of training. That certainly is bad for the knees.

Pinched nerves? You can pinch a nerve rolling over in bed. I have had pinched nerves in the past but to the best of my recollection, never in MA training. Arthritis? What's that? I've got lots of mates with arthritis who have never seen the inside of a dojo and I seem to have missed out. Sure I'm a little stiff in the joints when I've been immobile for a while but give me 10 seconds and I'll come good.

So there. I might be living proof that spending decades in martial art training, which had left me ten times fitter, stronger and more flexible that most of my friends who have not done MA training, is not harmful to your body. Then again, I'm only 66 so I don't know what I'll be like when I'm old!

I totally agree with you! I've always wanted to try Jujutsu but I would hesitate. Better to try it than to sit in a chair and read books but still get arthritis. I'm pushing through with Jujustsu. I just have to be extra careful to avoid any injuries.

 

[panda]

you get used to the throws. takes a few months, and it's never fun when you do hard repetitive throws, but you get used to it.

arm locks - you lern when you should surrender before you'll get injured, and your partner also knows when to stop pushing\pulling.

and as for competitive judo - yes, theres injuries, but ALL competitive sports have those. so yeah, Judo is a full-contact sport with harsh injuries, but not harsher then other full-contact sports (football anyone?)

 

[kohamy32]

Any martial art has its risks, just make sure to train carefully. Preferably with a good instructor. Go at a good pace, challenge yourself, have fun but go at a pace where you are comfortable

 

[Instructor]

Any martial art has its risks, just make sure to train carefully. Preferably with a good instructor. Go at a good pace, challenge yourself, have fun but go at a pace where you are comfortable

Yup that sums up the whole thread perfectly. I've taken the liberty of putting the most important part in bold letters.

 

[Tez3]

My knees are going from both age and what I did in the past, lots of horse riding and parachuting as well as martial arts. My daughter who is only 30 has bad knees and back from being a jockey, she's stopped now but still needs regular physio.

 

[Langenschwert]

arm locks - you lern when you should surrender before you'll get injured, and your partner also knows when to stop pushing\pulling.

As my Judo sensei says: "don't be a hero today and a dead man tomorrow".

It's better to tap too early in training than too late.

 

[Jeff_Beish]

Had total knee replacement in 2009 and wished I had it years before. While some of the problem may have been as a result of years in Martial Arts, duck walks come to mind, my saw bones told me my arthritis was the main culprit. One never knows, but my legs were very strong during my MA days and learning to walk again was helped by slow kata from what ever I remembered of the old karate days.

 

[Hwikek]

If you're not willing to get roughed up, then you probably shouldn't be doing martial arts. If you want to be able to protect yourself then you might have to accept the fact you could get hurt. If you've never done a contact sport or even a sport in general then you might not understand the willingness to work through certain levels of pain.

When I was on a swim team, not one that was any good, I had to swim through cramps more Han once. Why is that? Because if you don't keep swimming you're going to sink. And how many people want to sink?

You can get hurt doing any martial art. I always seem to get my right elbow hurt when somebody is learning how to do an armbar. This has happened to me in both Judo and BJJ and it's happened twice already out of two times that I was a good practice dummy. Will there be more times in the future? Not if I can help it. Can I always help it? Nope.

There is a reasonable level of pain/injury to work through. Cramps, okay! Minor scratches, okay! Concussions, no. Severe bleeding, no. Broken bones, no. Sprains, maybe but probably not. Loss of consciousness, maybe.

Train smart and don't go full ham with the most hardcore people you can find if you are just starting out. Doing so will make your neck sore, your body ache, and occasionally make your head hit the mat. I've had all that happen and I'm not even past introductory first term of new college Judo.

In the end it is all about your expectations. If you go into something expecting it to suck then you might not have a good time.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That getting thrown to a mat every night at 3x a week for over a decade can cause back pain or a sniff neck. All the pains and aches of the back and neck.

In order to learn the throwing art, you should have the following attitude:

- Treat yourself to be thrown on the ground as body massage,
- Treat yourself as a bouncing ball. The moment your body touch the ground, the moment that your body bounce back up.

But I do think the wrestling training is much harder.