Seeking authentic Jujutsu

[hedgehogey]

3. I'm not into competition! I did that for some time, did it well. It's just not my thing anymore. Toe to toe with classmates in order to learn from a good session of sparing...GREAT. Not a competitor anymore, simply could care less; I've got enough little golden-plastic men with one leg in the air...don't need more. (PS: not into BJJ...I respect them...but there's that 'not a competitor' thing again.)

Where did you get the idea that you have to compete to learn bjj?

 

[arnisador]

I study BJJ, but don't compete. We do of course grapple in class, but I've never done it with a referee, etc.--just "OK, start!" and we grapple away.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Curious, I was wondering what 'style' of authentic Jujutsu you were looking for?

I studied Hakko-ryu jiu-jitsu for quite a while, and practiced some Kodokwan Jiu-jitsu.

Did you have a particular style of Jujutsu in mind?

 

[Saitama Steve]

By authentic Jujutsu, do you mean Classical Japanese jujutsu?

Regards,

 

[Brother John]

Brother John: Have you considered looking into KAJUKEMBO? It's a really interesting style that is rooted in Kenpo, with the addition of techniques from other styles of karate with Judo, jujutsu and Chinese boxing (hence KA-JU-KEM-BO). Anyway, I don't know what might be in your area, but I suggest contacting Mr. John Bishop on this net - Martial Talk.com

Mr. Bishop is a senior sensei in Kajukembo and also a moderator on the kenpo forums. Just a thought..........

Yours in Kenpo,

Garry

Nice art!
But there is no Kajukenbo anywhere close to my area.

ahhhh...Kansas...

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

Where did you get the idea that you have to compete to learn bjj?

Ya know, it probably IS my own presumption. But the few that I've met and the handful I've corresponded with have made it seem as though it's primarily structured for competition. Even if this is nothing but a trend w/in the BJJ groups... it's a trend that doesn't interest me.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

Curious, I was wondering what 'style' of authentic Jujutsu you were looking for?

I studied Hakko-ryu jiu-jitsu for quite a while, and practiced some Kodokwan Jiu-jitsu.

Did you have a particular style of Jujutsu in mind?

I'm very interested in Hakko Ryu, from what I've read it's a very good school.
I must confess complete ignorance of "Kodokwan". Could you please tell me something about it?
As far as "Style" I guess I've not given it enough thought. I want to become adept at grappling skills that are applicable in a real life or death confrontation.... not skills that are geared toward competition.
NOTHING wrong with competition nor competitors in Jujutsu/Judo. I know that a good competitor will probably be VERY able to deal with a life or death situation...
Just not looking to be a competitor. It's my own personal bent.

Your Brother
John
PS: Where are you from?

 

[Brother John]

By authentic Jujutsu, do you mean Classical Japanese jujutsu?

Regards,

I would prefer it, yes.
Though I've come across people from more modern styles/American associations that have really impressed me as well.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

I study BJJ, but don't compete. We do of course grapple in class, but I've never done it with a referee, etc.--just "OK, start!" and we grapple away.

OK.
But my premise is that the system itself is geared/crafted with the end goal of competitive prowess...
which it obtained....BULLSEYE-
I'm not saying that every practitioner or even every Dojo is sport oriented. But from what I understand from communicating with some BJJ people and from reading different interviews with the Gracies and especially Hellio (SP?) it seems to me to be created on the foundation of competition.

Hope I'm not offending anyone for saying this. It is not a put down.

Your Brother
John

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Brother John: Not all BJJ players compete. Actually, most probably don't.

There is a BJJ school in Wichita:

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu of Wichita Kansas
658 North St. Paul
Wichita, KS

http://stompingass.com/brazilianjiujitsu.html

 

[Shogun]

I am positive it has already been mentioned, but Aikido is probably your best bet. Remember, Koryu Jujutsu styles were focused not so much on "wrestle to the ground, then armbar" types of techniques, they were about finishing a fight quickly. "ju" simply means pliable, adaptable, or flexible....not soft, which is commonly thought. The concept of Koryu Jujutsu (most of the time) was when one lost his sword, knocked from his horse, attacked while sleeping, etc
While I respect BJJ, and have even comtemplated practicing it, it is by no means similar to traditional Japanese Jujutsu. If by Authentic you meant Koryu, then I recommend Aikido. if not, disregard.....Aiki (do or jutsu) is basically modern Koryu Jujutsu.

 

[Kevin Walker]

I would prefer it, yes.
Though I've come across people from more modern styles/American associations that have really impressed me as well.

Your Brother
John

There is something called: AMERICAN JIU JITSU being taught, and after some investigation, I discovered it is heavily based on Hakko-ryu ju jitsu and Judo.

There is only one Hakko-ryu jiu jitsu dojo left in New England to the best of my knowledge and it is located in Holliston Massachusetts. It is taught by the senior student of my Shihan who opened his own Hakko-ryu school after having a falling out with the Shihan. More dratted martial arts politics.

 

[Kevin Walker]

I'm very interested in Hakko Ryu, from what I've read it's a very good school.
I must confess complete ignorance of "Kodokwan". Could you please tell me something about it?
As far as "Style" I guess I've not given it enough thought. I want to become adept at grappling skills that are applicable in a real life or death confrontation.... not skills that are geared toward competition.
NOTHING wrong with competition nor competitors in Jujutsu/Judo. I know that a good competitor will probably be VERY able to deal with a life or death situation...
Just not looking to be a competitor. It's my own personal bent.

Your Brother
John
PS: Where are you from?

Hi,

Yes, Hakko-ryu is a very good school of Jiu Jitsu, and to be perfectly honest, it has satisfied all of my self-defense needs. It was basically all I needed when I worked as a bouncer, and shore patrol in the Navy (plus some of the various street fights I've had along the road).

Hakko-ryu jiu jitsu emphasizes 'pain-only' techniques. In 1941 Hakko Ryu was founded by Ryuho Okuyama (1901-1987) and its lineage can be traced back to 8th century a.d. It was kept confidential and Okuyama gave private lessons to members of the Royal Japanese Family and the aristocracy in Hakko-ryu Jiu Jitsu.

In fact, even today, students should be hand picked by a responsible sensei and are asked to keep what they learn a secret.

The term 'Hakko Ryu' means "Path of Eight Lights" or "School of Eight Lights".

Hand techniques predominate Hakko Ryu and an emphasis on control-through-pain methods which Hakko Ryu employs very efficiently.

You begin learning Hakko Ryu from the kneeling position (suwari-waza) then progress to the standing position (Tachi-waza). You learn from Hakko Ryu that "nobody can hold you", and this comes pretty close to the truth.

For example, you constantly practice throughout your Hakko Ryu career to escape from the classic lapel grip where the bully grabs you by the shirt with one hand, then pulls back his fist with the other and threatens you with it. After about a year of constant practice you drop the bully in seconds, with the bully in shrieking pain. There are dozens and dozens of other applications you will learn and practice, practice, practice.......


Now Kodokwan Jiu Jitsu hasn't been around the U.S. for awhile. It is what you would call basic self-defense manuevers; such as: escaping from a bear hug by bending down and reaching between your legs to grab the leg of your opponent and then pulling. Kodokwan consists of those type of semi-wrestling techinqes. It would be considered a 'primitive' form of jiu-jitsu as compared to some of the finer approaches found in Hakko-ryu, Aikido, or any of the Aiki-jitsu styles. Hope this helps!

And to answer your P.S. - I'm from South Boston, Massachusetts.

 

[Brother John]

FOUND IT!!!!

Tell yall more later

Your Brother
John

 

[Shogun]

American Jujutsu style are good for fighting, MMA comptetitions, and grappling tourneys. However, they are not Traditional Jujutsu systems.

 

[Brother John]

American Jujutsu style are good for fighting, MMA comptetitions, and grappling tourneys. However, they are not Traditional Jujutsu systems.

Thanks Shogun
The one I found IS an 'American Jujutsu' instructor.
"good for fighting" is what I'm after over and above 'tradition'.
Your Brother
John

 

[Shogun]

Yes, good for fighting is good. Both modern and classical offer this, but as far as the other stuff, they are very different.

 

[Brother John]

Well...I said I'd tell you about it, so here goes:
I begin this Saturday. The instructor is a very nice guy that I used to work with... his name is Steve Bell. I asked him (by e-mail) what style he teaches. He said that he's in the lineage of "O'Sensei Phil Porter" and that I should look him up to find out more.
So I did:
http://www.mararts.org/biography/porter.shtml
From his resume (of sorts) there, I'll be in very good hands...
litterally...in his hands, flying through the air....

Tell you more after I begin.
Any experienced Jujutsuka/Judoka....I'm very open to suggestions and recomendations/advice as I begin my journey.
:asian:
Your Brother
John

 

[Shogun]

In the beginning......Patience. this is key. Patience is necessary in any Jujutsu/judo/jujitsu/jiu jitsu etc class.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Any experienced Jujutsuka/Judoka....I'm very open to suggestions and recomendations/advice as I begin my journey.

If your stomach is in good shape (on the inside), you can take 3 advil every 8 hours for a total of 9 per day even though the instructions say 6 per day max. Advil is crucial in my ability to tolerate Jujitsu and/or Jiu-Jitsu.