How much karate inside TKD?

[Gorilla]

Great Post!!!! I have some more to think about!!!

The real question is how reductive do we wish to get? Karate most definitely stems from China. It only reached the Japanese mainland in the 1920s. Korea was occupied by Japan from 1910-1945. However, it always had trade and intellectual exchange with China. China absorbed trade and commerce from across Asia and the steppes. Ideas arrived indirectly from Europe and in limited cases directly -- Alexander the Great, Marco Polo, Jesuits, et cetera. Reasonable minds can deduce that martial arts in the broadest sense were part of these exchanges. Certainly in the Ryukyu kingdom is a famed instance of such an exchange. Scholars and elites who were trained in China brought back the foundation of what became karate. Over time karate developed unique traits. Nationalism led to the removal of Tang from the name to the simpler "open hand."

The paradigm of outside influence and the subsequent repurposing is exemplified in karate. Arguably, TKD fits this bill. Although the Koreans were occupied, their culture was not eclipsed. Any incorporation or adaptation of karate was filtered through their own lens. It has gone on to be a unique art in its own right. How much past forms of Korean fighting styles informed TKD at the inception or in a later stage of progression is probably impossible to dissect with English language sources.

In closing, ideas that are exchanged between cultures are rarely adopted wholesale. The anger between Chinese, Korean and Japanese cultures has led to overstatements of individualism and overplayed the denials of outside influence.

One more point, simultaneous, independent development of ideas has occurred throughout the world over space and time. Learning to use one's body as a weapon, maximizing on physics, has happened across the globe.

 

[Manny]

We have trained 11 years in Tkd and 2.5 years in Karate. TKD is Karate that moved to Korea that was influenced by the culture and the politics of the last 60 years in Asia which includes the split of the Korean peninsula (Korean War) and the residual issues caused by the brutalization at the hands of The Japanese during WW2.

IMO TKD is a form of Karate and we should be proud of that! I am a minority in this opinion.

If you are going to train in both let each stand on its own (don't compare) it will hinder your growth in both.

I also think that Karate and TKD are something alike and I don't feel worried because I use the reverse punch (ala Karate) and because I love the hand techs as much as the kicks, even I am a kicker I must admit I use more the hands than my classmates, I never felt bad about the way TKD was named in the begining "KOREAN KARATE".

Manny

 

[Manny]

Then you've taken it the wrong way.

It isn't simplification, it is factual history from the founding kwans themselves. Rewritten histories and attempts to transform it into a 2000 year old indiginous Korean art notwithstanding.

It is what it is and TKD practitioners should be satisfied with what it is and where it can go.

I also think TKD is a moder martial art that dates from the 1950's too, yes it may have some ancient rooths and these roots can be far to 2000 years but it's silly to think TKD is that old.

Manny

 

[arnisador]

There's no doubt--Southern Chinese kung fu becomes Okinawan Karate, which becomes Japanese Karate, which becomes TKD. It changed each time.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Having just started shotokan after eight years of tkd, Im amazed how similar the arts are. There is no doubt a lot of karate influence in the type of tkd I was doing.