How Much Does it Cost?

[dvcochran]

You guys prompted me to re-aquaint myself with this thread and I wanted to respond to a couple of things. The quotes above (Gary and I) made me smile. "This kid" has been with me almost a year and a half now. He's a GREAT student. He's developed really well in that time. He's worked hard and is way ahead of where I usually see people with this amount of time in. I'll ask him tonight at class what was going through his mind that week and how money factored into it. He's exactly the type of student that I want. I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't be thrilled to have him as a student.





I would not react negatively to that at all and I would give you a straight answer. That's not really what I was getting though. I would get entire emails that just said "how much?" which I still hate.

Funny related story. One of my other students, who's been with me a bit over two years, initially emailed me and just said "location?"

I don't have a storefront. I have some industrialish space in a basement. I forget how I replied exactly, but I would have either sent something equally terse and unhelpful like "Seattle" or "Chinatown" or I would have replied with something like "Hi, thanks for your note. Are you inquiring about training?". I don't remember what I went with, but we went back and forth 1/2 a dozen times before he would even tell me his name, but he was obsessed with knowing where, precisely, the kwoon was. I eventually told him to call me, we had a decent conversation and I invited him for a class and the rest is history.

We joke about this now and he says "I just couldn't handle not knowing where it was. I looked all up and down King Street and it just bugged me that I couldn't find it." I don't think that he was even interested in kung fu, but once he came that far he felt like he should give it a try. I taught him for the first year or more expecting every month to be the one that he flaked out and disappeared, but 2+ years later, he's still there and is going strong.

It is a funny thing that we do.

It's very refreshing to hear about such a fine young man. They are still out there but main stream media makes them harder to find. Congrats.

 

[dvcochran]

I've been away from MT for a good while, but I got notices that there were responses to my old thread, so I'm checking in.

I'll say that none of you are wrong on this and I appreciate the perspectives you've each shared. I'm at capacity as far as how many students I'm willing to carry at any one time, so this hasn't really been an issue this year. If something happens and I'm considering adding students at some point, I'll consider a revised approach. I don't have much attrition, so we're a pretty stable group.

I charge less than most in my city, but so does my SiFu. We don't do that to undercut the market, but because we don't want to take what we don't need and I would never want someone who felt like training would be good for them to not get it because of cost. I don't want the market to look at us as the budget option or to be comparing the cost of our classes vs another club in the area. I also am concerned about the correlation of cost vs value. It's not a secret, I just don't like to publish it.

I prefer for people to contact me with interest, tell me what they are looking for and why and ask whatever questions they have about me or us or the system or how we train and unless that conversation goes poorly for some reason, I always offer a visit class for free and will tell them what our dues are. I'd be very skeptical of a student who said "Only $X? When do I start?" Without actually vetting us on more substantive points.

What I think I've learned from you guys' responses has been that by not putting it out there up front it is probably becoming a thing that I don't intend for it to be. That's not what I was going for and if I have spots open up in the future, I'll consider a different approach. Thanks everyone for their perspectives.

I hope to hear back the next time someone joins and hear how you approached all the cursory details.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You guys prompted me to re-aquaint myself with this thread and I wanted to respond to a couple of things. The quotes above (Gary and I) made me smile. "This kid" has been with me almost a year and a half now. He's a GREAT student. He's developed really well in that time. He's worked hard and is way ahead of where I usually see people with this amount of time in. I'll ask him tonight at class what was going through his mind that week and how money factored into it. He's exactly the type of student that I want. I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't be thrilled to have him as a student.

I never said I wouldn't be interested, at all - just less than you. And that works out well, as you might be a better fit for him anyway. Of course, with hindsight, who wouldn't be happy to have a student who has fit in well and continued training past where most quit - and making good progress. Good on both of you!

 

[ShortBridge]

I never said I wouldn't be interested, at all - just less than you. And that works out well, as you might be a better fit for him anyway. Of course, with hindsight, who wouldn't be happy to have a student who has fit in well and continued training past where most quit - and making good progress. Good on both of you!

It just goes to show what a guessing game it is with students.

I asked him last night what he remembered about contacting me and said mostly that he was nervous. I pointed out to him that he didn't ask about cost. He said that he was worried about it, but really wanted to train and was surprised that it was much less than he expected.

What I strive for really in this process is for the prospective student and I to both learn enough about each other to make our own best decisions. I direct a lot of people to other schools or teachers in this process, when I think that's best or sometimes just to see if they'll go.

I've been wanting to convert my site to Wordpress and I may do so this year and in the process update my language on things like dues.

 

[Buka]

Nice to see you back, ShortBridge. Even nicer to see that you're still teaching.

 

[ShortBridge]

Thank you, Buka.

 

[evan.fedora]

I run a small Wing Chun school in Seattle's Chinatown. There's no storefront. I don't teach kids and my web site describes it as "non-commercial". The only statement on cost that I make on it is:

"Modest monthly dues enable us to share the expense of our training space and a few essential pieces of equipment. We do not require contracts or sell anything and never charge for tests, awards, or certificates."

95% of all inquiries just say something like "I'm interested. How much do you charge?"

That's it? No other questions? Not about the system or how we train or anything? Just cost?

Something about that just frustrates me. I get that money is tight for some people and I actually would rather teach working people. It just seems like the wrong way to approach it. Not really a question, I'm just venting and wondering if you all have similar experiences.

I have faced this for years, Now it does't hurt anymore, Wish You Luck for Future Though!!

 

[Douwe Geluk]

@ShortBridge

I also run a school but only for Tai Chi Chuan and Chi Kung 'Bron van Geluk' in the Netherlands.

I often get that question also, what is the price. Well when they ask that, through email or the phone i just reply as follows:

Basically i say something like:
--------------------------------
Thank you for your email (call). The prices we have at our school are not expensive but we only give that information to people who actually do a trial lesson because only for those it matters.

A trial lesson is totally free, and after your trial lesson we can give you all the information you need to practise at our school, including the fees etc.

If you have more questions about our Tai Chi styles and our classes feel free to ask!

-------------------------

Then some route information to.my school and basically thats it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@ShortBridge

I also run a school but only for Tai Chi Chuan and Chi Kung 'Bron van Geluk' in the Netherlands.

I often get that question also, what is the price. Well when they ask that, through email or the phone i just reply as follows:

Basically i say something like:
--------------------------------
Thank you for your email (call). The prices we have at our school are not expensive but we only give that information to people who actually do a trial lesson because only for those it matters.

A trial lesson is totally free, and after your trial lesson we can give you all the information you need to practise at our school, including the fees etc.

If you have more questions about our Tai Chi styles and our classes feel free to ask!

-------------------------

Then some route information to.my school and basically thats it.

Why don't you want to give them that information up front? It actually matters to some - to those for whom you don't fit into the budget. If I know I have a certain amount I can afford to pay, there's not much sense going to trial lessons where the monthly fee is more than that amount.

 

[Douwe Geluk]

Well internet is internet, many people who ask you for the prizes can be other schools as well.

i live by the idea that people should come for the quality of the lessons. Here in this country we can sometimes arrange an extra budget for people on wellfare.

Money should not be something we can not overcome.
I teach because it is something i love to do, besides that i have a job.

I do not have.to make a living out of my classes.
When people really need to know the prize they will ask again, and then i considder it.

If people do not want to come because i do not give prozes immediately then they can go.

When people really look for the arts at my school then they will try it anyway...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well internet is internet, many people who ask you for the prizes can be other schools as well.

I've never much worried about that. If they're going to set their prices to beat mine, I don't really think that's going to matter much.

i live by the idea that people should come for the quality of the lessons. Here in this country we can sometimes arrange an extra budget for people on wellfare.

I think most of us live by that precept. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they chose someplace primarily because it was inexpensive. I have, however, heard folks NOT choose someplace because they didn't have the money. Studies have shown that if people are conscious of cost, and cannot find the price, they don't usually go any further. So, not having the price available likely doesn't improve the chances of someone who can't afford it taking a trial lesson.

Money should not be something we can not overcome.

Shouldn't be, but for the folks wanting lessons, it sometimes is.

I teach because it is something i love to do, besides that i have a job.

I do not have.to make a living out of my classes.

Many of us on here are in the same situation. I've never really cared whether I make any money off my teaching. I'm not sure what that has to do with whether a prospective student can find out the price over the phone.

When people really need to know the prize they will ask again, and then i considder it.

That's reasonable.

If people do not want to come because i do not give prozes immediately then they can go.

When people really look for the arts at my school then they will try it anyway...

I'm not sure that is aligned with how people who have a limited budget deal with things. Some folks find it embarrassing to ask what the price is, and find out they cannot afford it. The further into the process they get, the worse that feeling is. Some folks will avoid the trial lesson to avoid the possibility of that discomfort.

Please note I'm not saying there's anything wrong with not wanting to share the number. I'm just pointing out that it may not have the effect your post suggests. Not providing prices tends to make people more price-conscious. As long as you're aware of the effect, and your policy does what you need it to do, there's no reason to change it.

 

[Douwe Geluk]

Yes

I see well i think there is something to say for all ways.

On my website i have added the numbers now, i will see if that makes a difference.

Yes i never think my way is the right one, always willing to learn and adapt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes

I see well i think there is something to say for all ways.

On my website i have added the numbers now, i will see if that makes a difference.

Yes i never think my way is the right one, always willing to learn and adapt.

I'd be interested to hear if you notice any difference - one way or the other - after the change. This is one of those areas where we can get information from studies, but it's hard to tell how closely it applies to what we do.

 

[ShortBridge]

It's really not just money, it's more the style of communication. I've had a flurry of interest and I briefly had a spot open for a new student (about 36 hours) for the first time in quite a while.

I try to be courteous to everyone who contacts me, but I don't feel that the general courteousness of those inquiring doesn't quite match the tone I'm setting. But I was only looking for one student, so it worked out.

Not a big deal really, I'm good.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's really not just money, it's more the style of communication. I've had a flurry of interest and I briefly had a spot open for a new student (about 36 hours) for the first time in quite a while.

I try to be courteous to everyone who contacts me, but I don't feel that the general courteousness of those inquiring doesn't quite match the tone I'm setting. But I was only looking for one student, so it worked out.

Not a big deal really, I'm good.

You make a good point. The attitude we perceive is more important than the actual question.

 

[ShortBridge]

Context first:

• I was just whining when I started this. Not really trying to solve anything.
  
• I have the students that I want and need its not about getting more for me, though I do try to have positive interactions with people looking for training and if I can't make space for them, suggest other programs. This week, I even made a call to another teacher on someone's behalf.

My new pet peeve is that I've had a small handful of inquiries/exchanges this year that go something like this:

Inquirer - "Hello, my name is xxxxx and I'd like to join your school. I am yyyy and very dedicated. I will be your best student, train night and day and do anything you require of me."

Me - "Thanks for the note, why don't you give me a call and let's talk about it."

Sworn dedicated student - <silence>


Sometimes they'll even email back or worse text me with something like "So, can I join?"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Context first:

• I was just whining when I started this. Not really trying to solve anything.
  
• I have the students that I want and need its not about getting more for me, though I do try to have positive interactions with people looking for training and if I can't make space for them, suggest other programs. This week, I even made a call to another teacher on someone's behalf.

My new pet peeve is that I've had a small handful of inquiries/exchanges this year that go something like this:

Inquirer - "Hello, my name is xxxxx and I'd like to join your school. I am yyyy and very dedicated. I will be your best student, train night and day and do anything you require of me."

Me - "Thanks for the note, why don't you give me a call and let's talk about it."

Sworn dedicated student - <silence>


Sometimes they'll even email back or worse text me with something like "So, can I join?"

Whining OP's are entirely permissible. Just don't expect us not to drag the thread in some direction we consider more useful....to us.

And continued whining will get commiseration, mockery, or most likely both.

To your point in this post, that's oddly un-unique to MA. I remember working with an insurance organization on their sales recruitment process. They'd get people saying they would surely be their top salesperson, that they really liked the business model, and were super-excited about the whole business plan. And that'd be the last they ever heard of them. ::SMH::

 

[ShortBridge]

Whining OP's are entirely permissible. Just don't expect us not to drag the thread in some direction we consider more useful....to us.

Of course

And continued whining will get commiseration, mockery, or most likely both.

I expect and deserve nothing less!


If I put my moaning aside for a second. I have a really good group of students and this process is probably helping make that the way it is. Probably a tax on me with a result worth having. Did I just type something optimistic on the internet? I must be late for my morning whiskey.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Context first:

• I was just whining when I started this. Not really trying to solve anything.
  
• I have the students that I want and need its not about getting more for me, though I do try to have positive interactions with people looking for training and if I can't make space for them, suggest other programs. This week, I even made a call to another teacher on someone's behalf.

My new pet peeve is that I've had a small handful of inquiries/exchanges this year that go something like this:

Inquirer - "Hello, my name is xxxxx and I'd like to join your school. I am yyyy and very dedicated. I will be your best student, train night and day and do anything you require of me."

Me - "Thanks for the note, why don't you give me a call and let's talk about it."

Sworn dedicated student - <silence>


Sometimes they'll even email back or worse text me with something like "So, can I join?"

Wait...their name changed from xxxx to yyyy in a sentence? Thats your first warning sign.

 

[ShortBridge]

Wait...their name changed from xxxx to yyyy in a sentence? Thats your first warning sign.

"yyyy" represented some broad range of qualifications like "23 years old ... in amazing shape ... brilliant ... experienced ... exceptional in lots of ways that should matter to you"