How Much Does it Cost?

[ShortBridge]

@gpseymour Clearly I'm a little bit guarded about publishing my price, even here, but from the other thread, where you did, I'll share that my prices and conditions are almost exactly the same as yours. A bit higher, but not nearly as much as the cost-of-living differences between our cities.

Except that if we add days that look and feel like private training, I don't charge for that and I don't do extra people discounts, because I don't have that much space and I don't really like to deal with couples as a package. They can join together, but they each have to deal with me separately.

 

[Andrew Green]

95% of all inquiries just say something like "I'm interested. How much do you charge?"

That's it? No other questions? Not about the system or how we train or anything? Just cost?

Most people aren't going to know what else to ask. So you can do one of two things, post the answer on your website. Or, use their inquiry as what it is, the start of a conversation. Like talking about weather, or asking someone how they are doing, it's just a way to start a conversation. You can either give the answer and let them go away, or keep the conversation going and see if they are a good fit for your program.

 

[ShortBridge]

...post the answer on your website.

I will try this at some point.

...Or, use their inquiry as what it is, the start of a conversation. Like talking about weather, or asking someone how they are doing, it's just a way to start a conversation. You can either give the answer and let them go away, or keep the conversation going and see if they are a good fit for your program.

This is exactly how I respond to it now...except that then I ***** about it on MartialTalk.

 

[JP3]

If you saw my shiny head, you'd fall out of your chair at this point.

Sorry I'm too late. Shoot.

 

[ShortBridge]

Sorry I'm too late. Shoot.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, JP3

 

[JP3]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, JP3

Are you related to my wife? Man...

lol...

 

[ShortBridge]

Maybe I am your wife. Never can tell with the internet.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@gpseymour Clearly I'm a little bit guarded about publishing my price, even here, but from the other thread, where you did, I'll share that my prices and conditions are almost exactly the same as yours. A bit higher, but not nearly as much as the cost-of-living differences between our cities.

Except that if we add days that look and feel like private training, I don't charge for that and I don't do extra people discounts, because I don't have that much space and I don't really like to deal with couples as a package. They can join together, but they each have to deal with me separately.

If we added days that look and feel like private training, I'd be talking about half of my classes ATM (as I said, a very small program).

With a closed program (I'm not sure what your space limitations are - I probably can't teach more than a total of 20, spread evenly across 3 classes of 15), you'd have no reason to offer the discount. My discount is mostly because I find that those who bring a partner are more likely to stay when life interferes. I've even considered offering the discount when they bring in a referral, for as long as that referral stays. Your prices seem more than reasonable, again, especially with the difference in COL between our areas.

 

[JP3]

Maybe I am your wife. Never can tell with the internet.

Nah, she's got a full head of long blonde hair.

But, more to the point, she would NEVER despair of telling someone how much it costs. Ever. Kind of her thing.

 

[MacPark]

I know when I was looking at schools price was important. Some schools charge alot of and dont offer much in way of class where as others priced the same offered more classes etc. Its not the be all and end all and im happy to pay a good teacher but its an important starting point when looking up schools and comparing prices and timetables etc.

 

[CrazedChris]

I know when I was looking, cost was a big thing, especially since I am now paying for 4 people.

 

[marques]

As an instructor, I would not like. If a car costs $25,000, how would do we know if it is fair before knowing what car are we talking about. And students want to know the price before knowing the thing...

But as a student, I know how far I can or want to go in price. It just becomes a non option above a limite. Knowing the price, I can then try the style if it fits my budget; and schedule.

 

[pdg]

As an instructor, I would not like. If a car costs $25,000, how would do we know if it is fair before knowing what car are we talking about. And students want to know the price before knowing the thing...

But as a student, I know how far I can or want to go in price. It just becomes a non option above a limite. Knowing the price, I can then try the style if it fits my budget; and schedule.

If you've got 20K to spend on a car, it doesn't matter what car it is or how good it is if it costs 25K... It may or may not be a fair price, but that can become irrelevant.

If the price was a secret until after a test drive, imagine how much time would be wasted by people who just can't justify the money (or simply can't afford it).

That's why car dealerships (and private adverts) put the price front and center for all to see - if it's in budget give it a try and if you like it, buy it.

Why is MA training different really?

If you won't discuss price until after an intro lesson or two, and your price is over budget that's a bunch of wasted time and some bad feelings straight off.

Unless you intend to bully the prospective student into paying more than they can afford anyway...

There's plenty of stories on the web about MA schools charging multiple hundreds per month with minimum term contracts - finding out if that's the case is surely part of due diligence on behalf of the student?

If I called a place about training the price would be one of the first questions I'd ask - if I got a cagey response or told "come and try first" I'd hang up and never bother again.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As an instructor, I would not like. If a car costs $25,000, how would do we know if it is fair before knowing what car are we talking about. And students want to know the price before knowing the thing...

But as a student, I know how far I can or want to go in price. It just becomes a non option above a limite. Knowing the price, I can then try the style if it fits my budget; and schedule.

I got a new car a couple months back, the price limit and the durability of the car were the only two things i cared about, mainly because i dont know cars. I assume its the same for someone trying MA who doesnt know MA

 

[marques]

I got a new car a couple months back, the price limit and the durability of the car were the only two things i cared about, mainly because i dont know cars. I assume its the same for someone trying MA who doesnt know MA

Especially when it is only for kids or fitness, [poor] students or for all family together, price becomes the main thing.

But the ones that usually can pay more, young adults, are also doing martial arts less and less... I feel.

This is a poor market, isn’t it? Which leads me to another question. Who can pay the bills only from martial arts instruction? I digress...

 

[dvcochran]

I run a small Wing Chun school in Seattle's Chinatown. There's no storefront. I don't teach kids and my web site describes it as "non-commercial". The only statement on cost that I make on it i, Is:

"Modest monthly dues enable us to share the expense of our training space and a few essential pieces of equipment. We do not require contracts or sell anything and never charge for tests, awards, or certificates."

95% of all inquiries just say something like "I'm interested. How much do you charge?"

That's it? No other questions? Not about the system or how we train or anything? Just cost?

Something about that just frustrates me. I get that money is tight for some people and I actually would rather teach working people. It just seems like the wrong way to approach it. Not really a question, I'm just venting and wondering if you all have similar experiences.

Reading your post and viewing your site I think you are setting yourself up for the frustration. Get the question out of the way so you and your perspective student can focus on class. If you are not for profit use that as part of your marketing but be ready to prove it if needed. I strongly suggest promoting trial classes. That is the perfect time to talk money as well. Unless you are worried about competition or setting a price, just advertise your pricing structure.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Price has never been an issue for any place I trained. It was an issue a few places I didn't.

 

[JR 137]

I still don’t get why the price is something to safeguard or keep from a prospective student until you think they’re a serious student.

For the ones that think if the student asks this before anything else, what’s the problem? If you don’t want to discuss tuition because you think what you’re teaching is more important than the tuition and the prospective student only cares about the cost, then tell them the cost so you can both move on. Are you ashamed to charge tuition? Do you feel you’re charging too much? Do you think that a prospective student will tell you you’re charging too much? Do you feel they’ll try to negotiate a lower rate like a bidding war between car dealers?

For those of you that don’t want to discuss it, it seems to me like you’re making it a far bigger deal by not discussing it.

If you wanted to learn to play the guitar, would you want the guitar teacher to go on and on about everything he/she does and avoid telling you how much he/she charges? Or do you want to know if it fits within what you’re willing to spend? Do you think the teacher should interview you and decide if you’re worthy of being their student before they give you a price? What if you’re required to take an intro lesson or two before they’re willing to discuss the price?

I’m pretty sure you’d think they’ve got an inflated sense of themselves and/or what they’re teaching. And you’d be right. I’m pretty sure you’d find another teacher. MA isn’t any different in this regard, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise.

 

[ShortBridge]

I've been away from MT for a good while, but I got notices that there were responses to my old thread, so I'm checking in.

I'll say that none of you are wrong on this and I appreciate the perspectives you've each shared. I'm at capacity as far as how many students I'm willing to carry at any one time, so this hasn't really been an issue this year. If something happens and I'm considering adding students at some point, I'll consider a revised approach. I don't have much attrition, so we're a pretty stable group.

I charge less than most in my city, but so does my SiFu. We don't do that to undercut the market, but because we don't want to take what we don't need and I would never want someone who felt like training would be good for them to not get it because of cost. I don't want the market to look at us as the budget option or to be comparing the cost of our classes vs another club in the area. I also am concerned about the correlation of cost vs value. It's not a secret, I just don't like to publish it.

I prefer for people to contact me with interest, tell me what they are looking for and why and ask whatever questions they have about me or us or the system or how we train and unless that conversation goes poorly for some reason, I always offer a visit class for free and will tell them what our dues are. I'd be very skeptical of a student who said "Only $X? When do I start?" Without actually vetting us on more substantive points.

What I think I've learned from you guys' responses has been that by not putting it out there up front it is probably becoming a thing that I don't intend for it to be. That's not what I was going for and if I have spots open up in the future, I'll consider a different approach. Thanks everyone for their perspectives.

 

[ShortBridge]

Side note, I just got a call from a 21 year old man who has been trying to learn on YouTube and expressed an interest in formal training, was very respectful, asked all the right questions, NEVER ASKED what I charged, and offered to meet me for tea.

I love this kid already.

... I wouldn't be as interested in him as you are...

You guys prompted me to re-aquaint myself with this thread and I wanted to respond to a couple of things. The quotes above (Gary and I) made me smile. "This kid" has been with me almost a year and a half now. He's a GREAT student. He's developed really well in that time. He's worked hard and is way ahead of where I usually see people with this amount of time in. I'll ask him tonight at class what was going through his mind that week and how money factored into it. He's exactly the type of student that I want. I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't be thrilled to have him as a student.

I'm not saying call or stop in and make the first thing you say is "How much?" That's just rude. For the sake of argument, here's more or less what I did when I was looking to restart my training around 2 years...

Hello. I'm currently looking to restart martial arts training after about 15 years off. I've seen your website and what I think you do looks interesting. Unfortunately being a private school teacher and having 2 little ones doesn't leave me much disposable income these days, so I have to ask about how much do you charge for tuition?
...

I would not react negatively to that at all and I would give you a straight answer. That's not really what I was getting though. I would get entire emails that just said "how much?" which I still hate.

Funny related story. One of my other students, who's been with me a bit over two years, initially emailed me and just said "location?"

I don't have a storefront. I have some industrialish space in a basement. I forget how I replied exactly, but I would have either sent something equally terse and unhelpful like "Seattle" or "Chinatown" or I would have replied with something like "Hi, thanks for your note. Are you inquiring about training?". I don't remember what I went with, but we went back and forth 1/2 a dozen times before he would even tell me his name, but he was obsessed with knowing where, precisely, the kwoon was. I eventually told him to call me, we had a decent conversation and I invited him for a class and the rest is history.

We joke about this now and he says "I just couldn't handle not knowing where it was. I looked all up and down King Street and it just bugged me that I couldn't find it." I don't think that he was even interested in kung fu, but once he came that far he felt like he should give it a try. I taught him for the first year or more expecting every month to be the one that he flaked out and disappeared, but 2+ years later, he's still there and is going strong.

It is a funny thing that we do.