How many and differances in Shaolin Kempo

[Mariachi Joe]

I agree. People that post on here should be taken on their own merits. Whether they are from the USSD or anywhere else. Unless they come on here to extol the virtues of it, who cares where they're from? I know we've had purple belts come one here and say things that are ignorant regarding that organization etc. and they've gotten the treatment that they deserve, but if an individual is coming on here it shouldn't matter if they are USSD, Viallri's, Joe Blow's McKempo or whatever. I first came here as USSD and as a result of my interactions here am now Kajukenbo (which I'm very happy with "Kajukenbo Forever!" ). If I had just gotten flamed due to my affiliation, I might never have learned enough to know what I know now. Label people based on what they do or do not write, not on where they train.

I agree, I think ussd can be good for some depending on what they are looking for. I'm grateful to ussd for getting me started in Kempo.

 

[Gufbal1982]

Everyone on here knows what USSD charges, there is no reason to try and turn this discussion into another bash session. As far as how lond has a person been a certain rank, get real, it matters not in most situations. There are people out there carrying rank that they do not deserve, so what good would it do to know what rank was held for how long. Would a person who has been 3rd Dan for 2 years, 3 months, 2 days, and 5 hours be a better instructor than one who has held rank for 2 years, 2 months? I say it doesn't matter, a good instructor is a good instructor, no matter what the rank. A person needs to be positive and look for the good in not only people, but techniques. No matter what our rank, we can all learn from each other. Can a black belt not learn something from a white belt? Could there not be an excellent instructor that has had bad fortune and is living under a bridge somewhere? Is the instruction of a person teaching from his/her garage better cause the costs are lower?

Sorry if this is a bit over the edge, but seems to me this question was a setup ... bash me if you like, but do it directly.

Hey, 14 Kempo, when did your instructor get his 3rd? I'd like to call and congratulate him seeing as we don't train together anymore. The last time I saw him he was a 2nd...my how time flies. Anyway, Danjo will attest to the fact that when I was in my dojo's I never acted as if I were a 2nd degree. One of the few things I learned from USSD was to "act as if," so I acted as if I was not. I will admit I am your typical burned instructor, but I did learn some lessons while I was there. I actually study BJJ from a guy in his garage...so...um, take that at what you will. I train Kung Fu in a basement of a fitness center. I'm not afraid of where I train. My instructor's are good and that's all that matters.

 

[SK101]

I would like to see how different Villaris forums are to ussd's.

When I got the Villari DVDs I expected large differences, but I was highly surprised that 99% was the same.

Professor Ingargiola also puts out a tape series. A little more variation I would say not that, that is good or bad. I really like the Professor I videos, but the're certainly not filmed as well. Alot of information on them. Bunkai of the forms, weapon defense, weapon forms, etc.

 

[SK101]

Likely, their motives would also be questioned.

Originally Posted by IRO-Bot
Money and recognition for her, money and recognition for USSD.
It's a win-win situation for them.
To be completely honest, I didn't know who Cynthia Rothrock was before I joined United Studios.
In having read the interview, it's obvious she doesn't know anything about United Studios. Nothing. Her rank is probably completely honorary... Given only because of who she is. How she has her own school is well beyond me.

I can only imagine what would happen if someone like Jackie Chan or Jet Li joined USSD!

Likely, their motives would also be questioned. -Response to previous

I have to agree with you it doesn't matter if god joins USSD the outsiders will say the devil made him do it!! Actually when I was with USSD that's exactly the way we wanted it. Master Taylor used to say when they stop talking trash thats when we have to worry their actually becoming professionals.

 

[Danjo]

Master Taylor used to say when they stop talking trash thats when we have to worry their actually becoming professionals.

Yeah you're right. It would be hard to talk about a group being overly commercial (to the point where they were far more concerned with making money than teaching good martial arts) if you were doing the same thing. So I think that Taylor was right. When people stop being critical of the USSD, you know they've jumped onto the commercial bandwagon themselves and are becoming financial competition for the USSD (which is clearly Taylor's concern from his quote). Good point.

 

[Hand Sword]

Or.......maybe people have matured to a point, where, they realize, that people are going to do what they want, and we should just worry about, and focus on ourselves, and our own skills. Just because others throw away the values of the arts, is no reason for all to do it.

 

[Danjo]

Or.......maybe people have matured to a point, where, they realize, that people are going to do what they want, and we should just worry about, and focus on ourselves, and our own skills. Just because others throw away the values of the arts, is no reason for all to do it.

I think that one should worry about what others are doing to the extent that you can see whether you're getting ripped off or not. There's a difference between someone teaching the martial arts so that they can make their Ford or Honda payment and one teaching so that they can make their Ferrari payment. There will be a slight difference in their motivation, and priorities I think.

 

[Gufbal1982]

I think that one should worry about what others are doing to the extent that you can see whether you're getting ripped off or not. There's a difference between someone teaching the martial arts so that they can make their Ford or Honda payment and one teaching so that they can make their Ferrari payment. There will be a slight difference in their motivation, and priorities I think.

I agree with Danjo on this one. My FV instructor made payments on his Honda, has 300+ students and only wants to teach for the sake of teaching. I was making a Ford payment as an instructor, and I cared about my students and only want to make the greatest classes for them. I had the same drive and motives as him. I know of people who make a Ferrari payment and just don't care at all. All they care about is making money. Sure, according to the USSD pyschology (as well as other people) that doing what you love and making money is a good thing...and it can be, but it shouldn't be the only thing. When money becomes the main object, that's when the quality of instruction goes down. Take that as you will. There's the Ferrari instructors (ones that only care about the money) and the Honda/Ford instructors (the ones that do it for the love of it)...find out whose classes work best for you. I honestly look for the instructor's car when I go to a class at a new school. That determines my decision.

 

[Hand Sword]

As do I. I haven't disagreed about you and his evaluations of them. They are who they are as people, and will do what they do, irregardless of our protests. Worrying about them takes away from US as practioners. If we are not apart of their organization, nothing they do affects what we do. Theres no need to become part of the problem by becoming snipers on chat boards. It's all apart of the negativity. Our thoughts and responses can be done in a more constructive manner, which is all I was saying.

 

[Mariachi Joe]

About the original topic of the thread, I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo, and what is the big difference between his style and SKK other than lineage.

 

[Danjo]

About the original topic of the thread, I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo, and what is the big difference between his style and SKK other than lineage.

It's really two different things. GM Castro trained with Prof. Chow. He made a practice of writing down and systematizing his teachings. He called his art Shaolin Kenpo because that was the name of Prof. Chow's art at one point and he was allowed to continue it.

Shaolin Kempo has a different history. SGM Pesare trained for a couple of months with Victor Gascon to purple belt. He then moved back east and supplemented his training with TKD, Judo, escrima etc. and invented his own art that he passed on to Prof. Cerio. Cerio added some things to what he had from various sources including Mas Oyama's book, and passed this on to GM Villari. Villari added and changed things and called his art Shaolin Kempo Karate. Villari taught Mattera.

So aside from the name similarity, they don't have a lot in common.

 

[DavidCC]

When money becomes the main object, that's when the quality of instruction goes down.

I wonder if martial arts is the only industry where it is generally assumed that, when quality goes down profits go up.

Is this assumption correct?

How can that be possible? You give people less of what they want and they pay you more for it?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "quality"?

 

[Danjo]

I wonder if martial arts is the only industry where it is generally assumed that, when quality goes down profits go up.

Is this assumption correct?

How can that be possible? You give people less of what they want and they pay you more for it?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "quality"?

Well, the reason that this applies to the martial arts in particular is that the harder the training, the fewer the students you will retain. The fewer the students, the less money you're going to make. The formula is old and true. Plus, there's only so much money that you can charge a students and have them keep coming. So, in order to make money, you have to find the balance. You have to figure out how much money you can charge and how easy you have to make your training in order to maximize profits.

If you're not concerned with how much money you make, then you don't care how many students stick it out. You train them the way you think you should to produce good fighters and the one's that stick it out are the serious ones that will carry on the art. This makes for quality, but you better have another job.

 

[DavidCC]

I'm not surprised you had an thought on it

I'm not surprised that nobody else did

any more thoughts from anyone?

does it have to be that way? is the American adult tendency to laziness completely insurmountable? Is that the only reason this is true?

 

[14 Kempo]

I wonder if martial arts is the only industry where it is generally assumed that, when quality goes down profits go up.

Is this assumption correct?

How can that be possible? You give people less of what they want and they pay you more for it?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "quality"?

Actually it is a pretty well known fact that people will feel they are going to get what they pay for ... it is American nature to assume that if one is more expensive, it must be the best. We learn this from childhood. A Mercedes costs more than a Ford. Dreyers costs more than Thrifty. A Pentax cost more than Kodak. Which is better? Without testing, driving, tasting or using, most would immediately say Mercedes, Dreyers and Pentax ... why, cause they cost more. In some cases it is true, in others not so true ... but we are taught more expensive is better.

I know that was lame, but hopefully you get the what I'm trying to say.

 

[Danjo]

Actually it is a pretty well known fact that people will feel they are going to get what they pay for ... it is American nature to assume that if one is more expensive, it must be the best. We learn this from childhood. A Mercedes costs more than a Ford. Dreyers costs more than Thrifty. A Pentax cost more than Kodak. Which is better? Without testing, driving, tasting or using, most would immediately say Mercedes, Dreyers and Pentax ... why, cause they cost more. In some cases it is true, in others not so true ... but we are taught more expensive is better.

I know that was lame, but hopefully you get the what I'm trying to say.

You pay more for a more luxurious ride that looks better. If I had rough terrain to cover, I'd rather be in a Ford pickup than a mercedes. For serious heavy work, looks and comfort aren't what count.

 

[Hand Sword]

Funny thing? I've known people who wouldn't want to be in anything other than a mercedes, and wouldn't be caught dead in a pick up, no matter what. It comes down to doing what makes you happy. The martial arts are now something of a fun past time for a lot of people. You can't hold them to our standards, as we are serious about them. If people don't mind paying it, and attending there, inspite of the many choices available, good luck to them. To each, their own, I say.


Any chance on answers to the original question? It would be great to hear honest, well thought out opinions.

 

[DavidCC]

Actually it is a pretty well known fact that people will feel they are going to get what they pay for ... it is American nature to assume that if one is more expensive, it must be the best. We learn this from childhood. A Mercedes costs more than a Ford. Dreyers costs more than Thrifty. A Pentax cost more than Kodak. Which is better? Without testing, driving, tasting or using, most would immediately say Mercedes, Dreyers and Pentax ... why, cause they cost more. In some cases it is true, in others not so true ... but we are taught more expensive is better.

I know that was lame, but hopefully you get the what I'm trying to say.

When I first started doing independant consulting, I asked my "mentor" "Carl, how do you get $100 an hour" and his answer blew me away - "You just tell them you're worth $100 an hour and it will make them feel like they are getting the best." Which, i think, is exactly what you are saying

So, why don't the best teachers, with the hardest training, charge the most? By this logic, which I think is sound, they could. So why does that not work?

(I think we all have assumptions about over-priced McDojos etc I'm just questioning some of those assumptions)

 

[KempoGuy06]

I didnt really understand the term "McDojo" untill i did some reading but now that i see it i understand the whole concept.

I live in KY and started training about 6 months ago. I did some heavy research on what school were near me. Then i researched the styles. I found a lot of these "McDojos" around town. Flashy exteriors, fancy equipment, expensive cars in the parking lot. I talked to the instructors and there was no passion in their voice. It was all "this cost that much" and "that cost that much"

The place i ended up choosing was not flashy. It had equipment but it was all second hand. But what really got my attention was my instructors enthusiasm about his style. A 1 hour introductory session turned into a 2-1/2 hour introductory session and discussion about what the style is, what its purpose is and so on.

Sorry for the length.

B

 

[Hand Sword]

That's a GREAT story! Exactly what we need here in MT. Don't worry about the length of your post. God knows, there are plenty of long winded posters around here (

). I'm very glad you found a great connection for your training, Good Luck To You! Keep us updated.