How long to receive blackbelt training full time in korea

[Instructor]

I say go on your Korean adventure, have fun, learn things. Hapkido is a blast regardless of what gup/dan you might attain you will definitely learn something. Oh and write us once in awhile and share your experiences!

 

[Royers]

Royers,

That's what have said since the first post. Things are different in Asia, and they don't value the 1st black belt as anything special. That's what I have heard anyway.

I also know that this is the case with Japan. One American I know got a black belt in aikido after some months training.

I think perhaps they see it more as you have some skill and that you are able to teach what you know, spread the art and continue learning and mastering what you have learned. So I don't really think you can compare this to situation in US or Europe.

scott

I think I can compare this to the situation as found in the US and Europe on account of the fact that these large organizations are the closest thing Hapkido has to quality control. They are global, and they maintain a certain standard for every school under that organization. Our kwan (being affiliated with the KHF for many years) has the same requirements whether we study here or there.

That being said, for the sake of argument, you do manage to accomplish making it to 1st Dan within 3-4 months while training over there you would have to consider how that would appear to a prospective student. I know that I would be very skeptical about someone's claim of making it to 1st Dan in 3-4 months, and if I was inquiring about studying with them once I was made aware of that I would politely thank them for their time and be on my way.

I'm by no means trying to discourage you from your goals, and wish you a safe and fruitful trip. Train as much as you can, soak in as much as you can, and keep us posted. I'm definitely quite jealous.

 

[scott]

That is quite interesting..so if you came to school, and the teacher was a really good and competent one, which you could really learn a lot from, and then because you found out that he received a black belt after a full time training for 3-4 months, then you wouldn't train with him anymore?

Isn't that a bit silly? Shouldn't it based on skill and character instead of time really? I know it would look for skill and character first..

When you think about it. Training 3-4 months fully time in Korea, where your only focus and goal is to train hapkido everyday 24/7. That would equal a few years normal training in the west, if not more. In that sense I believe it's possible an don't see it as a bad thing.

Anyway, I go there for the experience and for the fun in the first place. And keeping an open mind to things has always been important to me. Who knows what will happen..

scott

 

[WaterGal]

I do know one guy that trained really intensely and got his 1st degree in HKD in like 6 months, but he's also a 6th degree in TKD and I think has some MMA or wrestling experience. If you don't have that kind of foundation, I don't think it would be possible. (Oh, and this all was in the US, not Korea.)

 

[oftheherd1]

I say go on your Korean adventure, have fun, learn things. Hapkido is a blast regardless of what gup/dan you might attain you will definitely learn something. Oh and write us once in awhile and share your experiences!

Can't argue with that!

 

[oftheherd1]

That is quite interesting..so if you came to school, and the teacher was a really good and competent one, which you could really learn a lot from, and then because you found out that he received a black belt after a full time training for 3-4 months, then you wouldn't train with him anymore?

Isn't that a bit silly? Shouldn't it based on skill and character instead of time really? I know it would look for skill and character first..

When you think about it. Training 3-4 months fully time in Korea, where your only focus and goal is to train hapkido everyday 24/7. That would equal a few years normal training in the west, if not more. In that sense I believe it's possible an don't see it as a bad thing.

Anyway, I go there for the experience and for the fun in the first place. And keeping an open mind to things has always been important to me. Who knows what will happen..

scott

A Hapkido BB in 3-4 months, from scratch, would indeed have me thinking. Part of any martial art is repeditive training. I would think that would be hard to do in 3-4 months. However, you state you have had, I think, 2 years of prior HKD training? That might make it possible.

But as you said, BB isn't your goal, just something that would be icing on the cake of your acquiring new skills, and experiencing Korea. Go for it, and do keep us posted of your impressions, progress, and enjoyment or otherwise.

 

[Jimsinkorea]

Hi Hapkido practitioners,

Does anyone know a school in korea where it's posible to train full time and receive a black belt?
If so, does anyone know for how long one should train?

I know that a 1st degree blackbelt is more or less considered a beginner, since grading is different in Korea compared to the west.

Please no replies about why I need information about this, or why I want to go to Korea and train.

If anyone knows a school and have some information about this, then I'm very happy to hear from you.

Should note that I'm not a beginner in martial arts, I'm 35 and have trained in other art before - and learned som hapkido for many years ago.

Thanks a lot,

Scott

It took my 6 year old son 11 months to get his black belt in Korea going 5 times a week. You are correct, a 1st degree black belt in Korea is really just a start, it takes about another year to move up to 2nd degree. As you may or may not know, Confucianism is a part of everyday society in Korea so the instructors standing within the Hapkido organization is important. If you are still considering this move, I would suggest you go to a black belt test day, which are held 4 times a year in Busan, a city at the bottom south of South Korea, to get a feel for what martial arts in Korea is like.

 

[oftheherd1]

It took my 6 year old son 11 months to get his black belt in Korea going 5 times a week. You are correct, a 1st degree black belt in Korea is really just a start, it takes about another year to move up to 2nd degree. As you may or may not know, Confucianism is a part of everyday society in Korea so the instructors standing within the Hapkido organization is important. If you are still considering this move, I would suggest you go to a black belt test day, which are held 4 times a year in Busan, a city at the bottom south of South Korea, to get a feel for what martial arts in Korea is like.

That's interesting. When I was there, tests for at least those in the northern part of South Korea, were held periodically in Seoul, at the headquarters of the Korean Hapkido Federation/Association. Have the moved, or are you talking about only the federation/association you/your son studied under?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

It took my 6 year old son 11 months to get his black belt in Korea going 5 times a week. You are correct, a 1st degree black belt in Korea is really just a start, it takes about another year to move up to 2nd degree. As you may or may not know, Confucianism is a part of everyday society in Korea so the instructors standing within the Hapkido organization is important. If you are still considering this move, I would suggest you go to a black belt test day, which are held 4 times a year in Busan, a city at the bottom south of South Korea, to get a feel for what martial arts in Korea is like.

If I'm reading this correctly, your son could be a black belt (or is a black belt) at age 7? And could be (or is already) a 2nd degree black belt at the age of 8? Did I read this correctly?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It took my 6 year old son 11 months to get his black belt in Korea going 5 times a week. You are correct, a 1st degree black belt in Korea is really just a start, it takes about another year to move up to 2nd degree. As you may or may not know, Confucianism is a part of everyday society in Korea so the instructors standing within the Hapkido organization is important. If you are still considering this move, I would suggest you go to a black belt test day, which are held 4 times a year in Busan, a city at the bottom south of South Korea, to get a feel for what martial arts in Korea is like.

If I'm reading this correctly, your son could be a black belt (or is a black belt) at age 7? And could be (or is already) a 2nd degree black belt at the age of 8? Did I read this correctly?

Based on this,

I know that a 1st degree blackbelt is more or less considered a beginner

Which has been said many times here over the years by different people,

This,

Not too many adults train in martial arts here, it's seen as an activity for kids, more or less.

and this,

There are many hapkido dojang in korea. I know GM KIM Nam Jae accepts american students. Takes about one year to obtain 1st Dan in Korea. One year is the general standard for obtaining 1st Dan in almost any martial art in Korea, and has been for a long time.

yes, you are reading that correctly. This assessment of martial arts in Korea has been almost universal from people who have actually trained there. I am not getting into whether or not it is good or bad; it is apparently the culture there.

Personally, I don't care what a particular school does with regards to black belt requirements so long as they're consistent about it; if black belt is a token for completing the basic class, then don't hold your ildans up as Chuck Norris clones.

If you're using belts as part of competition bracketing and are heavily involved in the sportive element of your art (whatever it is, and if it even has one), then connect promotion to ildan with competition (some schools do require you to be competing in order to grade for ildan/shodan).

If black belt is a token for advanced and highly skilled students, then don't promote people who aren't advanced or highly skilled. In that scenario, you should probably avoid promoting eight year olds to ildan as well.

Whatever it is you're doing, just be honest and up front about it. If you are doing that, then I will respect your promotion methodology.

However, if you're using ildan/shodan as a means of raking in extra cash, it will be obvious to anyone who visits your school and word will get around. Then it doesn't matter what you say your promotion methodology is, as you've already undermined your credibility.

 

[oftheherd1]

...
yes, you are reading that correctly. This assessment of martial arts in Korea has been almost universal from people who have actually trained there. I am not getting into whether or not it is good or bad; it is apparently the culture there.

...

I can only comment on what it was like in my school in the mid-80s. Not many people could get a black belt in one year. It was possible if you went at least 5 times a week on the military post. You would be taught 3 new techniques every class. You would be drilled on the ones previously taught as well. Before being tested, you would go over all techniques until the teacher felt you knew the techniques, and could do them correctly. It still wasn't easy, and even those who came regularly weren't guanteeded earning a black belt in a year. But it could be done.

At the black belt level, you were expected to be at a very effective self defense level. Granted, you had lots to learn if you decided to continue. But you weren't going to be a limp-wristed uncoordinated fool either (I felt like one when I started though).

That was the way GM Jhoon Goo Rhee taught in the mid-60s as well. Whatever the requirements were for passing a belt test, you had to meet them or you wouldn't be promoted just for longevities sake. You could test every quarter if you wished, until you passed, but it seemed he would let you know when he thought you could pass.

My Hapkido GM, and as far as I know, all others, would never send a person to a BB test unless they were confident that student would pass. It just wasn't done. It would be embarrassing and undignified.

Children off post were seen in dojangs, and in fact, at younger ages than normal for Japan I was told. It was not uncommon for teens and young adults to study, but I think many did not progress beyond BB. Perhaps things have changed, or we are all just judging Korea by where we were at some point in time.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Not having trained in Korea ever, I cannot comment one way or the other. Only that people such as Puunui, Jameseu, and others who have trained in Korea have given almost identical assessments of how it is, and apparently has been, for at least ten to twenty years.

I don't think it matters in the sense of, 'if they do it we should do it,' but I think that when we talk about how high and mighty a black belt in a Korean art is or should be, if the folks back in Korea are treating it as essentially a beginner who has learned the basics, we should take notice and consider the idea that it may be us who are out of sync on the issue.

As I said previously, I don't really care what (the general) you wants to do, so long as you're honest about it and aren't using it as means of gouging more money from students who are nearing the end of their contract.

 

[oftheherd1]

Not having trained in Korea ever, I cannot comment one way or the other. Only that people such as Puunui, Jameseu, and others who have trained in Korea have given almost identical assessments of how it is, and apparently has been, for at least ten to twenty years.

I don't think it matters in the sense of, 'if they do it we should do it,' but I think that when we talk about how high and mighty a black belt in a Korean art is or should be, if the folks back in Korea are treating it as essentially a beginner who has learned the basics, we should take notice and consider the idea that it may be us who are out of sync on the issue.

As I said previously, I don't really care what (the general) you wants to do, so long as you're honest about it and aren't using it as means of gouging more money from students who are nearing the end of their contract.

I understand all that. Apparently things have changed in Korea. That was why I made sure to mention the time frames for teaching while I was there. I think it is very difficult to attain a Hapkido BB in one year, or I guess I should say, it was when I was there. It takes a lot of commitment and an agreeable teacher. AFIK, my GM's son still doesn't push out BBs here in the States. In those schools that generally only have a student for a couple of nights a week, it would seem impossible to acheive a BB in a year. At least as I was taught in both TKD and HKD. But that was a long time ago.

I would just not have any confidence in a student who acheived one in a year with only two sessions a week. There may be exceptions, but I would be surprised nonetheless.

 

[dancingalone]

I'm just curious who are these people who attained an aikido BB in one year in Japan. Did they attend a senshusei course in Tokyo or what?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'm just curious who are these people who attained an aikido BB in one year in Japan. Did they attend a senshusei course in Tokyo or what?

Do they even use belts? Every aikido picture I see shows people in hakamas. And do people say that an aikido black belt is attainable in Japan in a year?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

For the record, I personally cannot see hapkido ildan in one year. Even two years is pushing in my opinion. I say that based on the nature of the skills and the breadth of the skills that you need to learn. There are more kicks and just as many hand strikes in hapkido as there are in taekwondo. That by itself would make it a lengthier proposition, and that isn't even including hoshinsul, which is the core of the art. Add in hoshinsul, which is all grapples, grabs, sweeps, takedowns, rolling and falling, something that could easily take take two years by itself, and I simply cannot see black belt in one year.

Even if you eliminated most of the striking and just did the hoshinsul, the techniques are more complex than a straight striking curriculum and take longer to learn. And that is assuming a student who catches onto it without who shows up for class two to four days a week and trains outside of class. A student who takes a little longer to get it will take longer.

 

[dancingalone]

Do they even use belts? Every aikido picture I see shows people in hakamas. And do people say that an aikido black belt is attainable in Japan in a year?

Yes, most people I know wear an obi, though it is covered by the hakama. Some people forgo the belt, but kyu/dan rankings are very much a part of aikido. As for earning a BB in Japan, scott said it above in post 18.

I know it is possible if you do an intensive live in program. If you pass one of those courses you deserve the BB. On the other hand, I am skeptical about the legitimacy of anyone earning aikido BB in one year training twice a week, regardless of where it was conferred, and I would be curious if anyone can name someone who accomplished such a feat from one of the established aikido groups like Aikikai, etc, in recent times (like 1990 or so onwards).

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, most people I know wear an obi, though it is covered by the hakama. Some people forgo the belt, but kyu/dan rankings are very much a part of aikido.

Kyu dan ranks are very much a part of kendo as well, but we generally don't wear obi or otherwise display rank.

 

[Jimsinkorea]

If I'm reading this correctly, your son could be a black belt (or is a black belt) at age 7? And could be (or is already) a 2nd degree black belt at the age of 8? Did I read this correctly?

That is correct. My son took his test about a month and a half ago and while he hasn't received the belt, his instructor knows he passed and will get his belt right before he turns 7. It takes 3 months for him to actually be given 2 different certifications from 2 different organizations. He has been training for his 2nd degree black belt now for a month and a half and his instructor thinks he will get his 2nd degree within another year or so, before he is 8. To give you an idea of cost, it is 100,000Won which equals about $100 a month, the cost of the test was around $500. There were a huge amount of kids at the test, we had to drive to Busan to take it at a gym, my son was the only foreigner at the test. I can say I was skeptical but the training in Korea that kids get is probably a little different than the U.S. The instructor doesn't coddle them, hits them with a foam stick that probably stings and expects these kids to train and not play even though there are kids as young as 5 in the class. My father has spent his life in martial arts and is amazed at what my son can do at his age after only a year. The training is also everyday M-F for an hour and 5 minutes or so, in the States I don't think kids go 5 days a week, more like 2 or 3 days a week. There is a 3rd degree black belt who is 9 in my sons class and he is amazing for a kid his age, he has been training with this instructor for 4 years. Martial arts is a way of life here, every man is a black belt unless they avoid military service. If a Korean man isn't already a blackball when he enters mandatory military service he must go to training while in the military until he obtains his black belt in a martial art. The last thing I will add to this is that the location my son trains in is great, it is an old building that just looks like what someone would expect when they think of the old movies, no glass front, no air conditioning, the bathroom is around the corner outside... I think the environment is a big part of why he does so well, it is hard core.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

That is correct. My son took his test about a month and a half ago and while he hasn't received the belt, his instructor knows he passed and will get his belt right before he turns 7. It takes 3 months for him to actually be given 2 different certifications from 2 different organizations. He has been training for his 2nd degree black belt now for a month and a half and his instructor thinks he will get his 2nd degree within another year or so, before he is 8. To give you an idea of cost, it is 100,000Won which equals about $100 a month, the cost of the test was around $500. There were a huge amount of kids at the test, we had to drive to Busan to take it at a gym, my son was the only foreigner at the test. I can say I was skeptical but the training in Korea that kids get is probably a little different than the U.S. The instructor doesn't coddle them, hits them with a foam stick that probably stings and expects these kids to train and not play even though there are kids as young as 5 in the class. My father has spent his life in martial arts and is amazed at what my son can do at his age after only a year. The training is also everyday M-F for an hour and 5 minutes or so, in the States I don't think kids go 5 days a week, more like 2 or 3 days a week. There is a 3rd degree black belt who is 9 in my sons class and he is amazing for a kid his age, he has been training with this instructor for 4 years. Martial arts is a way of life here, every man is a black belt unless they avoid military service. If a Korean man isn't already a blackball when he enters mandatory military service he must go to training while in the military until he obtains his black belt in a martial art. The last thing I will add to this is that the location my son trains in is great, it is an old building that just looks like what someone would expect when they think of the old movies, no glass front, no air conditioning, the bathroom is around the corner outside... I think the environment is a big part of why he does so well, it is hard core.

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. You mentioned that your son is the only non-Korean. This brings up a question: do you know if Korean national children also pay 100,000 Won per month and is the testing also $500 for them as well?