how long to first dan in your jujutsu?

[The Prof]

For us with diligent study nd good attendance, it takes anywhere from 30 to 36 months. Why? It takes that much time to proficiently get through the entire required courses.

Regards,

The Prof
www.niseido.org

 

[spatulahunter]

I studied Hakko Ryu Jujutsu for roughly 6 months to a year I am rather shocked to hear about someone making black belt in a year.
When I was training back in 92-94 my sensei was a stickler about fluidity of techniques. From what I remember that was supposedly one of the requirements for blue belt was that your throws and such had to be very controlled and very fluid.

that is strange. Even in the books which were written in part by Soke okuyama it says that hakko ryu ranks move much quicker than ranks in other arts. Im sure that different schools move through them at different speeds but if you guys used the same text as us then i would think you wouldnt take a really long time to move through the ranks.

 

[judokapont]

All interesting stuff , do you have to fight and win to obtain these grades?

i study judo where you complete your "theory" section ie throwing/choking/armlocking and pinning a passive uke and then to a grading where you have to fight and win to go up a grade , i thought this was common to all martial arts!

 

[spatulahunter]

there are quite a few martial arts that do not require students to fight/spar in order to move up in rank. There are probably as many if not more arts that do not require it.

 

[Sam]

I take kenpo and I know you spar later on, and I'm not sure when sparring begins but I know its not there from the first test.

I really don't know anything at all about jujutsu or judo, I was just browsing, hoping to learn something, but this caught my eye:

Yes, indeed and it should also be noted that a black belt isn't anything special. In budo, it's a stepping stone. It signifies that you've gotten to a certain level and that's it.

I agree that martial arts isnt about the belt or the rank, and should not be your focus, but I personally believe that the black belt IS something special - as different as all our styles are, nearly all of them that I know about anyway, have the fact in common that black belt is one of the highest if not highest ranks, and people the world over recognize it as having mastered the basics of your particular art. I think most people are a little more excited about black belt than any other belt.

If, however, you want to be a stickler and say all belts are the same, even if black isnt any 'better' than any other rank, progressing in your art enough to achieve a new rank is always special. Wether its recieving your first yellow belt (or whatever color is first in your system) or 10th dan, achieving it is special, in my opinon anyway.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think that schools in north america have really artificially extended the amount of time it takes to get a shodan rank, unless "black" belt is as high as you go in your particular system. the prof said around 3 years......which i think is plenty of time for someone to learn the basics. after all, shodan is all about knowing the basics......moving up from there is all about understanding them.

 

[Sam]

i think that schools in north america have really artificially extended the amount of time it takes to get a shodan rank, unless "black" belt is as high as you go in your particular system. the prof said around 3 years......which i think is plenty of time for someone to learn the basics. after all, shodan is all about knowing the basics......moving up from there is all about understanding them.

I was under the impression that reaching first dan was about MASTERING the basics, not just simply learning, or understanding them. I understand a whole lot of spanish but that doesn't mean that I can speak it. I can understand a lot of a martial art but that does not mean that I can necisarily DO it. I'm not saying that the really dedicated can't become black belts in 3 years, but I would be concerned about any school that equated their black belt with our system's black belt, who also promoted the majority of their students to that black belt in a year.

If the system states that the black belt is a way of saying that you have only 'learned' the basics, then that is a different matter entirely.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

In our school it takes anywhere between 5 and 6 years to reach Shodan. However, the BB rank only signifies that you have learned the basic and advanced techniques well enough to teach them. This does not mean you have learned every little nuance in every technique, this could take decades. As a person advances through the various BB levels, more of the system is revealed. As with most arts, there are Basic, Intermediate, Advanced, and Very Advanced techniques and sequences. Having studied those, that doesnt mean that the Professor has revealed everything. There are somethings that are not for all eyes.

Jujitsu is a combat art. Although, some may use some of the techniques of Jujitsu in a competition, street combat has no rules. Therefore one cannot advance by way of a sporting event which would by its nature not allow the combatants to use/demonstrate all they know.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

Spatula,

I study Daito Ryu KodKai and if it takes 1 year for shodan, you are not studing Daito Ryu and are being taken for a ride.
There is a high degree of sensitivity to make Daito Ryu work and if you can get to that level in a year, you would be either exceptional, or not doing Daito Ryu.
There were a good number of Aikidoka who started making their techniques harder, thinking they were recreating Daito Ryu (and missing the point by a mile), I wonder if your teacher was snowed into this?
We study 2 arts, Icho Yama Ryu, in which I hold a 2nd Dan, it took 5 years of 3-5 times a week to get to shodan, I am entering my 10 th year studying Icho and Daito Ryu.
I have not joined the Daito Ryu association formally so I hold no rank, but those who are shodan and higher in Daito Ryu, took between 6 and 10 years to get shodan.
Can you throw a man, who grabs you, without grabbing him, consistantly? If not, your not anywhere near Shodan

 

[spatulahunter]

Spatula,

I study Daito Ryu KodKai and if it takes 1 year for shodan, you are not studing Daito Ryu and are being taken for a ride.
There is a high degree of sensitivity to make Daito Ryu work and if you can get to that level in a year, you would be either exceptional, or not doing Daito Ryu.
There were a good number of Aikidoka who started making their techniques harder, thinking they were recreating Daito Ryu (and missing the point by a mile), I wonder if your teacher was snowed into this?
We study 2 arts, Icho Yama Ryu, in which I hold a 2nd Dan, it took 5 years of 3-5 times a week to get to shodan, I am entering my 10 th year studying Icho and Daito Ryu.
I have not joined the Daito Ryu association formally so I hold no rank, but those who are shodan and higher in Daito Ryu, took between 6 and 10 years to get shodan.
Can you throw a man, who grabs you, without grabbing him, consistantly? If not, your not anywhere near Shodan

different schools have different levels of skill that are required for different ranks. Apparently shodan means somthing different to your school than mine. I would like to visit your school and get some of the magnificent training you guys have recieved in how to judge others. It takes some amazing insight to know the quality of a school based on the requirements for shodan. Apparently you missed the part in my post where i explained that my school viewed shodan as a stepping stone and it merely meant that you have covered the basics. It would seem that at your school it is something different more of a rank of a highly skilled practitioner. Im sorry if i seem sarcastic but when you insult ones art and insinuate that their teacher is naive then you can really piss people off and i feel that in a forum that prides itself on intelligent friendly disscusion of the martial arts an arrogant elitest view such as your stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

Spatulahunter,

In no where in that thread did I insult anyone, but I do call to question when an instructor awards a shodan in a year to anyone who does not train 8 hours a day, 6 days a week for that year. I have that right as a Jujutsuka, who studies the art your Sensei proffesses to teach.
We have seen alot of people claiming to do Daito Ryu and not doing Daito Ryu. Kind of like guys who claim to be Special Forces vets, for personal gain, but were nothing of the sort.
I went to a school that said they taught Wing Chun and they were doing some kind of blend of bad Karate and Tai Chi. ( I watched the class for 10 minutes, kept my opinions to myself, said "Thank you for letting me watch." and went home
Shodan is a stepping stone in most arts, kind of like a high school deploma, as you get higher it becomes like associates, bachlor, masters,Phd and so on.
At least in Icho yama ryu, Daito Ryu, TKD, Goju and Kenpo and other arts I have studied at various point in my life, Shodan is looked as a stepping stone, even when it gives you the right to teach, your still considerd someone who has a solid grasp on the basics, but you just really started the journey, that really has no end.
I have seen the result of people being snowed, and being hurt bad in violent situations because they thought they had trained in an effective art, but were being giving techniques that just did not get the job done. ( I've also seen people who had good training get hurt who had good training as well. The Dog in the fight vs. the fight in the dog and all.)
I would reckon that any one who studies Daito Ryu, and their Kai has a clear line back to Takeda Sogaku, and saw your post would raise their eyebrows, and some of us would speak up. Not to insult you, but to say " Hey man , watch out, something is fishy here."
Whether or not you pay $$$ for this is not a qualifier either way.
I know this is a polite forum, and I like that, but questioning is a human right. And as long as one does it in a respectfull tone, without the " Your art Sucks!" of Bullshido, I don't think I am breaking any of the forum rules I read before I started posting here.
The only real thing that is important is if you like what you are doing, then good for you. Wheter it's Daito Ryu or Golf.

Merry Christmas and
SHUGYO!

Darth