How important is the History to the present?

[puunui]

Question, Puunui, since you know/converse with some of the pioneers. How many still practice daily? Do any of them still teach on a regular basis?

A lot of them have passed away. This includes GM LEE Won Kuk, GM YOON Byung In, GM CHUN Sang Sup, GM HWANG Kee, GM YOON Kwe Byung, General CHOI Hong Hi, GM LEE YONG Woo (Jung Do Kwan founder), GM HONG Chong Soo, GM LEE Byung Ro (inventor of steps and step drills) and most recently GM LEE Kum Hong.

Some are still alive. The ones that work out daily in current Jidokwan President LEE Seung Wan, GM PARK Hae Man and GM PARK Chull Hee. GM PARK Hae Man is still pretty active teaching and I know GM PARK Chull Hee really enjoys working out and teaching still. I would say the ones who would give GM Jhoon Rhee a run for his money are GM LEE Seung Wan and GM PARK Hae Man.

A lot of the USTU pioneers also work out daily. During trips you can see President Sang Lee running or doing the trendmill every morning. I remember I caught the red eye once for a USTU Annual Meeting, got in at around 6 am, and saw President Lee holding a coffee cup ready to do his morning run. People like GM LEE Hee Sup still work out, and can still do the splits, as can other USTU types. These gentlemen lived Taekwondo their whole life and work out because they love it.

 

[puunui]

USTU event,was that JR"S in Kentucky? GM Rhee sitting at the head table,takes off his suit jacket,jumps up on the table and does 100 pushups in under 1 minute.Those were pretty darn good pushups too.

GM Rhee did his push ups at every USTU event I have ever seen him.

 

[granfire]

I think that history is important. Taekwondo is a 'do' art, so it is about more than just the physical skills. The history is how we can remain connected with those who did the hard work to bring taekwondo to the world, be they Kukki, ITF, or otherwise.

Being a kendo practitioner and an occasional participant on ebudo.com, one of the things that really impresses me is the way that practitioners of Japanese sword arts honor and in some cases, revere their art's history.

Taekwondo's history is fascinating and the great thing is that the art is a young, postwar art. We can all have at least a working knowledge of that art. Consider also that we are practicing in the first century of Taekwondo's history, so not only may we know it, we are a part of it.

Daniel

I find it amazing how much BS floats around regarding TKD history though. I mean seriously, within one page on an organizational website we are spanning 10.000 years. That's 8000 BC, somewhere in the middle of the bronze age, or copper even!


Interesting to me, it seems that closeness to your subject does not guarantee a precise turn of events.

naturally, since I am hopelessly lost after the 3rd Kim and the 2nd Sung enters the arena I kept it to a superficial skim to the history: A lot of egos to bring under one hat. Big ones, too.

I have also come to appreciate the lessons from my high school history teacher: Rules (or tenets) have been composed because there was a need. So the lofty ideas of honor and integrity might pan out a lot different up close and personal.

 

[hal-apino]

Looking back at History, did the Olympics help or hurt the sport? Seems that once it became an Olympic Sport that is when things really started to change.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Looking back at History, did the Olympics help or hurt the sport? Seems that once it became an Olympic Sport that is when things really started to change.

The sport? I'd say that it helped, in spite of my distaste for the Olympic games. The Olympics are considered by many to be the pinnacle of the sporting world and any sport that is a part of it is placed on the international stage. If you're looking to take your sport to all nations, the Olympics are a great vehicle.

On the other hand, the lack of televising Taekwondo, the actions of some of the WTF officials that seem to have indicated attempts at bribery, allegations that matches were unfairly scored to keep the Lopez family together, all of the negative aspects of USAT that seem to come out of the woodwork here, and the Cuban debacle all hurt the sport.

As for changes to the sport, I guess it depends on your opinion of the changes that have occurred. I withhold judgement until the sport has been around a bit longer. Changes are still occurring, and electric scoring is still being sorted out. Electric scoring will undoubtedly change the dynamic, possibly for the better.

The sticky part is whether or not you see the art and sport as a unified whole or separate entities.

I see them as separate animals and feel that it creates a dichotomy that isn't necessarily hurtful to either the art or the sport, but confusing.

Overall, I'd say that the Olympics themselves have really not hurt the art, nor has the sport and the changes that it has brought. I think that many people blame the effect of rampant commercialization, particularly in the US, on the sport.

I think that the thing that has most hurt the art and the sport has been businessmen using taekwondo as an entrepreneurial opportunity with no regard for the integrity of either the art of the sport, and giving taekwondo a reputation with many for being more about daycare, extra cost clubs, and belt sales. These issues are not unique to taekwondo, but because there are way more taekwondo schools than there are of pretty much anything else, taekwondo gets the bigger black eye.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I find it amazing how much BS floats around regarding TKD history though. I mean seriously, within one page on an organizational website we are spanning 10.000 years. That's 8000 BC, somewhere in the middle of the bronze age, or copper even!


Interesting to me, it seems that closeness to your subject does not guarantee a precise turn of events.

naturally, since I am hopelessly lost after the 3rd Kim and the 2nd Sung enters the arena I kept it to a superficial skim to the history: A lot of egos to bring under one hat. Big ones, too.

I have also come to appreciate the lessons from my high school history teacher: Rules (or tenets) have been composed because there was a need. So the lofty ideas of honor and integrity might pan out a lot different up close and personal.

Unfortunately, many sites blend Korea's broad martial history with taekwondo history in an attempt to both connect the two and to downplay any Japanese karate influence. This aspect is not a factor with history from 1945 onward. At that point, you're dealing with modern, documented and verifiable people and events.

Daniel

 

[puunui]

I find it amazing how much BS floats around regarding TKD history though. I mean seriously, within one page on an organizational website we are spanning 10.000 years. That's 8000 BC, somewhere in the middle of the bronze age, or copper even!

The Modern History book does not even address that and starts Taekwondo's history at the foundation of the Kwan. You ask the pioneers and they never go into the 2000 year old thing. I was at the Oakland Kukkiwon Instructor Course and one of the attendees asked about the Hwarang, Soo Bak Ki and that stuff. I wanted to run up to the podium and say "forget all that". They wanted me to be the presenter of that portion of the course, but work did not allow me to commit early enough. So they asked someone else.

 

[leadleg]

The KKW stills uses that history (Wha Rang Do) do they not?

 

[puunui]

The KKW stills uses that history (Wha Rang Do) do they not?

Maybe. I don't read that stuff personally. But if you speak to the pioneers, they all start Taekwondo history with the foundation of the Kwans in the 40's. I would encourage people if they have access to approach those pioneers and ask them yourselves. You just might be surprised at what they say, at least the ones who actually lived through the history.

I find that those who came after the pioneers, generally second generation types who started after 1953 up through the early 60's, have a poor understanding of Taekwondo history as a general rule. They did not ask their sabum questions, and in many cases they do not even know their direct first teacher's full name. So when their American students ask them questions, they become uncomfortable and may point to hwa rang, soo bahk ki, taekkyon and that stuff in the most vague general terms. It is hard for them because they did not have an interest in the historical stuff; they generally just liked to train and felt that history information didn't matter. But American students tended to hang on their every word, and the vague perhaps erroneous information got put into a student manual or hand out, which got repeated over the ages and now has become iron clad fact in the minds of the students of the school.

 

[leadleg]

Is it possible that Korean history like your Hawaiian history is meshed with storytelling and folklore. Sometimes bringing the factual historian to question things that these two cultures just KNOW?

 

[puunui]

Is it possible that Korean history like your Hawaiian history is meshed with storytelling and folklore. Sometimes bringing the factual historian to question things that these two cultures just KNOW?

I don't know, maybe. I do know that my biggest fans seem to be Korean born instructors and practitioners. They just know in their hearts that Taekwondo and Korean Martial Arts are special, but they just don't have the words to explain it. Reading my stuff on taekwondo net really gives them a joy, and you can see it on their faces when I see them in person. Their eyes light up and everyone is happy.

The people who are most unhappy with me are those who have something to lose by me bluntly saying the things I say. One person told me that if they believed everything that I said and wrote, then they felt that their entire Taekwondo career and everything they were led to believe was a lie, and that they would feel horrible about what they practiced, what they taught as well as their lineage. I don't think we have to take it that far, but I will say that when I first started this history research and political understanding journey, I had the same beginning information that everyone else had, namely the General Choi books, the Kukkiwon books that stated the 2000 taekkyon stuff, and a whole bunch of shallow magazine articles in Black Belt, Karate Illustrated, Taekwondo Times, and others. But then I started talking to people, I read up and/or learned more about Korean culture and history, visited Korea a whole bunch of times, talked to more people, read more, studied more, and the next thing you, I have a completely different picture in my head. I've changed my views on a lot of things over the years, as anyone who has read my posts can attest to.

Put another way, if I am doing the same things and thinking the same thoughts as I did ten years ago, then that would mean that I haven't grown at all in those ten years. You know you are growing when your thoughts change. In another ten years I hope to be thinking a whole new set of things, and doing different things as well. I do know that big changes are looming on the horizon for USAT, WTF, KTA, Kukkiwon and Muju Park which is scheduled to be completed in 2013. We'll see how it plays out. In ten years, things could be radically different, just like ten years ago was radically different than today.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Very important. Understanding how TKD developed & why, can help someone sort of their training & refocus if needed.