Jackal
Orange Belt
"How good is systema groundfighting compared to Jujutsu or Brazilian jujutsu?"
Well...umm... it works.
Why bother going further with a comparison?
Well...umm... it works.
Why bother going further with a comparison?
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I couldn't agree more. But eye gouges are a bit hard to practice...we only have two and to sacrifice the gift of sight for the sake of learning self-defense is putting the cart before the horse, IMHO. Of course I am being a bit facetious here, I realize Matt is not suggesting that we actually gouge each other's eyes. But as to the other dirty fighting aspects, Systema does include these, such as targeting the groin, pinching and grabbing the skin, chokes, also hair-pulling, ear-twisting, finger manipulation, and even occassionally biting. OK, perhaps the latter is just my tactic, not a regular part of Systema practice. I am certaily no mouthpiece for Systema, this is just one student's perspective. Ground work can be dangerous even in a practice setting. If my partner is a huge, aggressive guy who just wants to "win" by pinning me to the ground, sometimes I do feel actual danger during our interaction. And if he's going to use his strength and mass, then I'm going to use whatever sneaky tricks are available to me so I can free myself, even if they might be perceived as "dishonorable." I have noticed that some people respond exactly as you described: they are surprised by any move that is forbidden by the UFC. But people catch on fast. Once I take a guy's pinky finger and bend it backwards to free myself, I generally cannot do so again...he'll keep his fingers neatly tucked for the rest of the class. So I totally agree, filthy tricks are well worth practicing. On the other hand, I also enjoy light, playful practice on the ground. It is a good way to learn to move and evade on the ground without the psychological implications of "going for broke." I think it's good to practice both lightly and intensely, slow as well as fast. I love fighting on the ground, I always discover something new when we practice groundwork.But, at the end of the day, you still have the dirty fighting aspects of ground fighting that I do not feel are taught much...like grabbing the groin, skin fold grabs, throat grabs, eye gouges. These seem elemental, but if you never train in them, it's not second nature.
That's just one perspective. You cannot say with any authority than the high ground is strategically superior for everyone. In Systema, it depends on the situation. There are no rules such as "always better to be on your feet."The ground... "it's just another plane."
And an inferior one in most self-defense situations with obvious exceptions while dodging a spray of machine gun fire.
There is a reason that the "high ground" has historically been strategically superior.
1) Far more mobility while on your feet
2) Gravity works for you and against opponent on ground (add a swinging weapon into this equation and it's force multiplied)
3) Superior visability/combat orientation (you can easily turn head to get a 360 view while on feet. On ground you need to move neck in two planes (lift or drop and turn) to get same orientation.
And that's just for starters...
Because of this sentence, I skimmed through the rest of your post. Anyone who can say anything about combat with quite a bit of authority is too much of an authority for me to put much credibility in your statements. And who said anything about dropping on the ground as a first resort? That's your interpretation, I only said that fighting on the ground is not inherently a position of disadvantage.Actually, no, it's a generalization based on historical warfare. I can say with quite a bit of authority that "generally" dropping on the ground as first resort is an inferior strategy.
I see that attitude as defeatist. Armed, I'd have no chance against Vladimir Vasiliev. Standing up, I can name half-a-dozen people who would make short work out of me from the ground. Obviously the sniper situation is a disadvantage, just like being surrounded by two dozen gun-wielding attackers is a disadvantage to a person in a wheelchair. We can name all kinds of scenarios where one person is at a huge disadvantage. But we're talking about groundwork, and I still believe that being on the ground, even against a standing attacker, is not a disadvantage unless you allow it to become one.If you are on ground against a standing opponent - you are more vulnerable. If you are unarmed against an opponent with a knife, gun, stick, you are more vulnerable. If you are walking across open ground confronting a sniper in a bell tower, you are more vulnerable.
It is obvious from your statement above that we disagree. I am a Systema practitioner and your remarks are so contrary to the Systema way of combat that our points of view are bound to differ. Since this is a Russian Martial Art forum, I hope you will keep in mind that I'm only offering the Systema point of view."Don't try to throw an opponent who's still in balance." is a good battle tested rule. There's nothing wrong with rules and principles. And there's nothing wrong with breaking them when the situation calls for it. (Maybe your up against a little twirp with no strength and you can easily muscle the throw without breaking a sweat). But if you don't know the rules, then you don't know when you are breaking them - which means one is in a very bad place. Vunerability.
Yes, Vlad doesn't come across that way. He's actually a very humble person considering his skill and experience. We could all take a page from his book in that regard.Would that include the authority of Vlad?