How do you meet people?

[Cruentus]

O.K., bare with me. I read this post when I gave up posting for lent, and it was killing me to not reply; so, I wrote a little artlicle on the subject. I am engaged now, but when I was single I went from dateless all through high school and part of college, to dates anytime I wanted (within reason; in other words, no I am not a stud who get ANY chick he wanted; but on a friday night if the place had enough single people, I could go home with a phone number with a potential date for next week). I analyzed what I was doing that worked for me, which is what this article consists of. Take it or leave it; everybodies different so I'd just apply it to your situation as you see fit. BTW...all good advice so far here.

I hope that at the very least, you'll find this entertaining!

Getting “Chicks”

Disclaimer: before I get into this, there will times when I will generalize, or speak in a very general manner. For the sake of discussion, this has to be done. Yet, I always get some smart aleck in these discussions who knows a guy who knows a girl who knows a guy where the general didn’t apply to them. Yes, we are not all morons here, so we ALL understand that there are situations and people who do not fall into the statistical norm, and for whom the generalization will not apply. Having said that, there is no need to argue over details; let's stick to the concepts, shall we? Thank you.

I came across this thread while I was offline, and it was really difficult not to post, but I honestly think I have this whole thing figured out (at least, as much as any one person who is not a PHDed psychologist could). I know that sounds pretty arrogant, and I don’t mean to be. Women (ironically, the very gender we are trying to attract) will probably think I am the most arrogant. One reason for this is because most women have no idea what attracts them initially. Sorry girls, but its true. Women know all about how they want to be treated, and what their ideal man should look/act like. They are great at giving you advise when you are in the relationship also, because they can give you insight on how a woman thinks. Yet, they usually can’t tell you how to get there unless they have REALLY analyzed the situation. I have yet to meet one woman who really understands the “initial attraction” phase, which is the most important phase in regards to getting dates.

Case in point: Ladies who are married…how many duesch bags did you have to go through in the dating world before you met your husbands? Unmarried ladies, how many duesch bags have you had to date in your life? Now, there are those circumstances that are exceptional where the woman dates very few people before finding “the one,” but these are not the norm. The norm is that most women date a lot of men who do not fit the description of what they believe to be ideal. Now, are we really that cynical to believe that 99% of the men out there are A-holes, and only that one that you marry isn’t? I think that it would be more realistic to assume that women in general do not understand what initially attracts them to guys in general, otherwise they would understand why they allow themselves to date men with whom they are not compatible with.

Now, there is another factor also; something I could call “the hoodwink factor” that exists in all people regardless of gender. Now you’ll have to excuse me for my terms, because I am not a licensed psychologist. The hoodwink factor is just me referring to how the human mind can fool itself in regards to desires. In other words the subconscious mind can play tricks on the conscious mind, masking a persons true desires from themselves. An example would be with a female friend that I had who had low self-esteem. If you asked her what kind of guy she was looking for, she’d tell you that she was just looking for a “nice” guy. But the reality is that she had low self-esteem, and deep down inside she did NOT want a nice guy, but wanted someone who would “punish” her, because she didn’t feel she deserved a nice guy. So, she always managed to find herself in abusive relationships because deep down inside she was attracted to abusive men, even though she wanted a “nice” guy on the surface; a raising the self-esteem would only cure this. This is a prime example of the hoodwink factor. I have a guy friend who hoodwinks himself all the time as well. He is a single guy who has a child, and is a very good dad. He says he wants a woman who will be good to him and his kid, who is not too materialistic, and who is compassionate. Yet, he goes to bars and clubs all the time to pick up women, and the women he dates are what I call “bar hot.” They dress and wear lots of make-up to get all the attention in the bar. These women that he has dated have been very self centered, materialistic, and far from “motherly,” the complete opposite of what his conscience mind is looking for. Why does he do this? Who can say for sure, but I do know that he always had trouble getting girls until he was about 21 years old, so if I had to guess, I’d say he is still fighting the low self esteem he had from when he couldn’t get dates, so now his subconscious mind says “go after the pretty arm candy so everyone will think you are a stud,” with no regards to his other needs. A clear example of the hoodwink factor. The bad news is that women (and men) often hoodwink themselves when it comes to their desires. How many of you guys have had that female “friend” (who you’d like to be more then friends with) who’s description of her ideal guy fits you exactly, yet for some darned reason she isn’t attracted to you? If you’ve been through this, then you know exactly what I am talking about. The good news is that for the “initial attraction” phase, the hoodwink factor is actually only a small uncontrollable factor. It becomes more of a problem after the first few dates. So at least when it comes to the process of getting the initial date, the hoodwink factor is not something to worry about.

So, when I say that women generally do not know what attracts them INITIALLY, or what gets them to that first date, I don’t think I am exaggerating. The fact that most women go through dating many men with whom they are not compatible, even if this incompatibility is evident from the first contact, proves this fact to me. Now, having been a single guy before who was able to go from dateless to dates any time I want (I am engaged now, so I have no reason to boost, and I am not saying this to brag. This just happens to have been the fact.), and not by accident, but by actually figuring out the key to getting through the initial attraction phase. And trust me, I am not all that good looking either. So, I’d say I know more about this phase then most women do. The key to figuring out how to get through the initial attraction phase is to observe the @$$hole guy.

“How come @$$holes always get hot chicks!?” How many times have you heard this before? How many times have you said this yourself? @$$holes often can and do get chicks, even if they can’t maintain healthy relationships. Most of the time we focus on how big of an @$$hole the guy is in disgust. Rarely do we ever try to observe the nature of the @$$hole to try to figure out HOW this creature seems to get the chicks that we covet. Now, before you think it, you’ll hear someone say, “you don’t want someone like that anyways,” when referring to a gal who is with an A-hole. This is a cop out, because there are plenty of desirable women who entrap themselves by dating A-holes. How many A-holes did YOU date, ladies, before finding the right one? How would YOU like it if someone was telling a perfectly desirable guy that they shouldn’t want someone like you just because you made a mistake? Exactly my point…so to say that you wouldn’t want someone who would date an A-hole is a cop out. What would be more useful is to look at what the A-holes are doing to get past the initial attraction phase, and try adopting some of those things to your strategy (without being an A-hole yourself!).

A-hole Strategy #1: Confidence: There is no question that A-holes are confident about themselves to the point of arrogance. A-holes are not afraid to do or say things in front of strangers. You need to be confident in order to get a nice lady to talk with you. If you are not confident, then you will not be comfortable during the initial attraction phase. If you’re not comfortable then she won’t be comfortable, and if she isn’t comfortable, then you’re done for. You’ve got to be confident. If you don’t want to be an A-hole, just don’t cross the line and be arrogant.

A-hole Strategy #2: Not giving a s**t: A-holes don’t care about anything but themselves. Now, you don’t want to adopt this attitude exactly, but observe. By not caring about anyone but himself, then he really isn't emotionally attached over the outcome of his efforts. If they are rejected, then they’ll reject right back. “Get away from me jerk!” “You get away from me, Biaach!” If they get a phone number, then cool, if not, then screw em'. That’s the mentality of an A-hole. They don’t care about what the other woman thinks about them either (very important), because they KNOW they are the stud. Now, you don’t want to not give a S**t about people, or not care about the woman your talking to, but you do want to avoid being attached to the outcome of the conversation. So, when you approach someone, you’re not so focused on YOUR desired goal of getting her phone number, or getting her to like you. You are more focused on her and what she is saying. And for her, she is comfortable because she won’t feel pressured to give you a phone number, or to like you. She can just be herself, because your alternative motives will not show through, because you won’t be attached to an outcome. This point can be illustrated on so many levels, but the main idea here is that you want to care about what is important, which should be her at the time of your initial contact; but you don’t want to care about your own personal desires at that moment. How many of you have witnessed people who were so concerned about their desire to impress you that it was so obvious and unimpressive? How many of you have witnessed someone who try’s so hard to get someone else to like them that they talk and talk about themselves, turning the other person off? Or how about someone who was trying so hard to make the other person feel important that it made that person uncomfortable? The root of overcoming a large host of problems here is “Not giving a S**T” about your personal desires during the initial contact phase. An A-hole has mastered this ability just out of sheer virtue of his uncaring personality.

A-hole Strategy #3: The numbers game, and handling rejection: This is directly related to #2. When a nice sensitive guy approaches a female and gets rejected, he goes back and thinks about all the stuff that he might have done wrong, and all the things that might be wrong with him. This consumes the rest of his evening. When an A-hole gets rejected, he briefly thinks of all the things that must be wrong with her before moving on to the next perspective lady. His rejection phase lasts anywhere from 5 seconds to 5 minutes at the most. This allows the A-hole to move on to the next girl, and the next, and the next, until finally he is able to get a female to give him the time of day. The A-hole seems to get the girls through sheer statistical probability. While your sulking over that one rejection, he has already talked to and been rejected by 10 more ladies to reach the eleventh who now is accompanying him until closing time. Point is, you missed his other rejections because they were suttle enough; you only see him with that the one female who decided to talk with him, who is good looking, and now your jealous and wondering how this A-hole was able to pull that one off and not you. This is called the numbers game. Now, to avoid being the A-hole, you don’t want to think about what must be wrong with the person who rejected you (unless its blatantly evident). Just realize that there is nothing wrong with YOU because she rejected you. The longest you should ever be hung up on a rejection from an initial contact is 5 minutes. It does you no good to dwell on it longer then that, or to carry it over into your next approach. So, quite hanging on rejections and move on. Now, you don’t want to be perceived as the sleazy guy who hits on every skank in the bar or bookstore, or wherever. So, the key is be suttle. The reality is, though, in a crowded area no one is paying attention to what your doing. So if you don’t intentionally draw attention to the fact that you’re hitting on different women, then you should be fine. On any given day, there are probably 100 hot looking perspective females at the mall in your town. Out of those 100, at least one of them will date you regardless of what you look like. So the better you can handle rejection, then the better you can play the numbers game. So, if you get rejected, move to the next one, then the next, and so forth until you finally meet someone that fits your criteria who is willing to go on a date with you. The more people you talk too, the better the chances.

A-hole Strategy #4: Trickery!: This is the other part of the conversation that repulses many women (the first being when I say that most women don’t know what initially attracts them). This idea of being tricked is repulsive because women are attracted to the opposite sex on more of an emotional level then men, and trickery can be seen as very cold and calculated. Men can ask for or give their phone numbers out more freely to a woman based on the fact that she is attractive, where a woman needs to be “comfortable” before she gives out her phone number to a man. So men can “play the numbers game” and engage in trickery more freely then most women because there is no emotional involvement in this act for a male for the most part. In other words, “shopping” for females can be like grocery shopping to a male, where as females don’t “shop;” they look, they get a “feel” for the guy, and if they “feel” comfortable then they will allow a number exchange. So, I apologize again in advance to all the women readers for sounding “dishonest” or “sleazy” here (see the other thing about this is that most women hate the idea of being duped, so they tend to see this as extremely sleazy when explained, and they exclaim how they would never fall into being tricked by these tactics. All I have to say to that is “yea right!”). Also, please refer to my disclaimer on generalizing in the beginning of this long post. Now, on to “trickery”…

When you watch a magician, are you being lied too? Unless the magician is claiming that his act is anything but a trick, then no, you are not being lied too. You are, however, being tricked. Being tricked is not the same as being lied too. Nobody likes to be lied too, so I am not suggesting that you get through the initial attraction phase through lying. I am suggesting that you use tricks. Now an A-hole doesn’t care if he lies or tricks to get what he wants, so an A-hole can be very skillful at this kind of manipulation. What separates you from the A-hole is that you are not going to lie at all; but you are going to create an illusion.

To get a women’s phone number for the purpose of going out on a date, you only need 2 things. She needs to be both AVAILABLE and COMFORTABLE. That’s it; this is not rocket science. Now, you can’t control whether she is available or not, so the key to that is to try to use your intuition to find that out; yet this is really out of your control, so do not worry about it. You can make her COMFORTABLE though. The unfortunate fact is that 9 and a half times out of 10, you will have to employ some degree of trickery to make her comfortable. The reason for this is simple; one of the key components in being comfortable is familiarity, yet, YOU TWO ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH EACH OTHER. So, you have to trick her into that feeling of familiarity. Here is how.

Ask any women how comfortable they would feel if a guy they have never seen before walked up to them and started talking to them. Most would say that at the very least, their guard would be up, and many would be outright uncomfortable with that idea. Yet, ask that same woman to picture this: “they go to the same coffee shop every day. And consistency, you see a guy getting his coffee every at the same shop. On the 6th or 7th time that you notice him, he approaches you to say something. Would this make you as uncomfortable as a person whom you’ve never seen before?” I guarantee that she will agree that she would be more comfortable with the familiar face. Yet, the irony is that she doesn’t know the guy that seems familiar any better then the complete stranger; the familiar guy could be a serial killer just as easily as the stranger, in reality, but familiarity melts the wall of ice. You need to establish some level of familiarity or she will not be comfortable with you, and you will not get her phone number. So here is a real world example of how I established familiarity with a person who I got to date me; we’ll count how many times I was able to make contact with her before I initiated a real conversation. I’ll use a coffee house that I frequent as an example. When I was single and still in school, I brought some study materials to the coffee house. When I walked into the room, I scanned the room making eye contact with everyone who looked up ( always do this if I want to be noticed). Many people noticed me. I picked the pretty girl who seemed most attractive and who gave me the most favorable response and I smiled and nodded in an unassuming, relaxed manner [contact #1]. I picked a table right across from hers so that if she looked past her friend’s head, she’d see me. And, I got out my materials to study. I got set up, then got up, made eye contact and smiled again as I walked past her [contact #2] and got my small Iced tea (notice how I got a small), because I noticed that she had nothing in front of her (her 2 friends had full coffees). I sat back down, made eye contact with no smile again, and then began studying [contact #3]. Some time went on, then a friend of mine walked in, and said hi, and talked with me for a little. She noticed this, and as my friend walked away, I gave her the eye contact smile and nod thing again (contact #4). Then, she got up to get a drink, amazingly around the same time that I needed a refill on my SMALL iced tea (now you see why I got a small). She ordered something, and I strike up a small conversation on what she ordered because I had never tried that before, and I was wondering if it was any good, and if it had a strong coffee flavor or if it was more carmel-like? [Contact #5]. It was a pleasant but brief conversation. I sat down and didn’t pay any attention to her for the next hour, and only studied. Then her friend got up and left that was blocking her view of me. We made eye contact again, except this time I got up, walked over to her, sat right down as if I owned the table she was at, and asked, “So, what are you working on?” [Contact #6]. Before I left, I had her phone number and we went on a date that weekend.

Now, did I get the date because I am such a handsome stud and she couldn’t resist my charm? Not at all, trust me. I got the date because by the time I sat down to talk to her, she felt as if I was familiar. The irony is, because I used trickery, by the time I sat down to talk to her, I could be totally honest and I could be myself. I didn’t have to think of anything creative to say to her because as long as I was honest and polite then it didn’t matter, because I had already built repoirte through familiarity. Now…does this sound STALKERish? Only if it’s taken to far. Just like confidence taken to far is arrogance (and an A-hole trait), trickery (especially faking familiarity) taken to far is stalking. If you followed her to her car, got her license plate number, found out where she lived, found out where she hung out, and THEN mysteriously and coincidentally showed up at the places she frequents, then yes, YOU ARE A STALKER who needs to get a life. But, we aren’t talking about doing that. In my example, I was at the coffee place to study for a couple of hours, and I accomplished my goal. I also accomplished my secondary goal of getting a nice gals number and a date for the weekend. If I didn’t get her number, no big deal, because I got my studying done. Remember the A-hole strategy of not giving a S**t, right?

Now, there are a few last things worth mentioning here. If you are at the bar, or a largely crowded area, you can do this large scale. You can play the contact game with 5 girls at the same time, and none of them will know the difference. I used to keep the game up with 5 women at all times until I got a promising phone number; when I got a unfavorable response from one, I’d drop her from my 5 and put another one in. So in a given evening, I’d go through 10-15 women that I was working, and I’d leave with a promising phone number. Remember the numbers game. Also, worth mentioning, is during the initial conversation, look for any realm of familiarity that you can focus in on. You may have asked an awkward, uncomfortable question, like “so, where do you work?” (which is only awkward because familiarity hasn’t been developed yet) and she answers “I’m a nurse.” You might answer, “My friends mom is a nurse over at Beaumont hospital in Troy. It seems like a very demanding job. Do you find that to be true? Then….let HER talk. And when she stops talking, ask an open-ended question that requires an explanation rather then a one-word answer. One-word answers lead to discomfort and the perception that she is being “quizzed” or “drilled.” Open-ended questions mean that she gets to talk, which means that you must be a good listener. That is the final point about trickery and developing comfort and familiarity that I am going to make, and that’s BE A GOOD LISTENER! Talking about yourself and “opening up” to her on the first contact will often make you seem either self centered, or even like a weirdo (“um, why is this guy I don’t know telling me all this stuff about him self”). And worse then that, when you’re opening up to her, then she is not opening up to you. Repoire and familiarity is built when the other person shares something about herself, not the other way around. When they open themselves up, and make themselves vulnerable by volunteering information about themselves, and you demonstrate that your interested and that you care about what she has to say, then she will feel comfortable, and you will feel familiar to her. Now, in the relationship, being a good listener is not trickery by itself, but it is during this initial contact phase it is because she will walk away feeling like she has “really gotten to know you, and your o.k. to give a phone number too, and go out with, because she FEELS comfortable around you.” But the reality is, she knows very little about you; not much more then if you would have asked her cold for her number, of which she would have said no because “she doesn’t KNOW you.” And that is the paradox. If you talk about yourself because, logically, you want her to “get to know you” so she’ll see that you’re a good guy, then you are much less likely to get her number, because she won’t feel like she “knows” you at all. If you let her talk, and ask meaningful questions about what she is talking about, then she will feel like she “knows” you when she really knows not much more about you at the end of the conversation then she did at the beginning.

Conclusions: I could right for days on this subject, but I won’t. I’ll highlight a few last things before I end this commentary. But if you can adopt some of these methods to your own personality, then I think that you’ll find that you can get a meaningful date just about any time you want.

Highlights:

1.Be confident – Remember, confidence without arrogance creates comfort.

2. Be caring – To separate yourself from the A-holes, actually give a S**t about people in general, and about her.

3. Don’t care too much about your own desires – Care about her, but don’t care about your desires of getting her on a date, in the sack, getting her phone number, making her comfortable, etc., etc., etc. If you focus on YOUR desires, then you can’t giver her your undivided attention, meaning that she will feel like your up to something and she won’t be comfortable, which all equals you not getting to that first date.

4. Don’t hang on rejection. - Hanging on one rejection means missing 10 or more opportunities for success. A wise man said, “Success is achieved by handling failure.” Also, don’t carry your rejections to the next perspective date, or you’ll come across as a needy loser. Nobody wants to date a needy loser.

5. Play the “numbers game.” – The more you talk to, and the more “no’s” you get, the closer you are statistically to a “yes.”

6. Be presentable. – You do not have to be the best looking guy at the bar. But you do have to look your best, with whatever style that is. If you can’t put yourself together, you’ll come across as someone who doesn’t care about himself. If you don’t care about yourself, then shy should she care about you, and why would you care about her? Even if you dress like a punk rocker with crazy hair and piercing, you should at least smell nice, and appear as if you put some level of effort into yourself to get the look that you desire.

7. The only thing you need from her is for her to be “Comfortable” and “Available.” - If she is available, she will give her phone number out to the man she is comfortable with far before she would the best looking guy in town. So, don’t try to be the best looking guy in town, be that guy she is comfortable with.

8. Make her comfortable through familiarity – She will only feel comfortable if you feel familiar. Create that feeling.

9. Be Honest! – This was only touched on a little. You can trick, but don’t lie. This especially applies to the first conversation you have with her. Don’t walk up and say “you look familiar, have I seen you here before?” Every moron says that; that’s a loser’s way of trying to build familiarity, and even the dumbest blonde can smell that B.S. miles away from the barn. Only say she looks familiar if she really does. If not, then say something else that’s honest. Complements are great, but be honest, without being rude of course. In other words, don’t say, “Nice A$s.” Say instead, “I think your skirt complements you well. Where did you get it?” Remember, it doesn’t matter what you say when you first walk up to her, just as long as it isn’t rude. What matters is the familiarity that you have, and if what you say initially warrants a response that is more then one or two words. People can smell a sales person or a dishonest person, usually. So, be honest and that will help you to create familiarity. Then make sure you follow up with an open-ended question, and get her talking.

10. Be a good listener! – I can’t say this enough, ask open-ended questions, and get her talking. If she is talking, then she is comfortable, and you are developing the familiarity that you need.

11. Ask open-ended questions. – Did I mention that you should ask open-ended questions to get her to talk?

12. Have realistic expectations with your goals. – This is important. People often say “I can’t do the bar scene any more; I never meet the ‘right’ kind of women,” or something like that. BullS**T! The problem with bars are that the expectations are unrealistic. Lets say you are going to a big club with about 2000 people. Out of the 2000 people, there are 300 super-hot women, and 300 decent looking women, totaling 600 datable women in the place. You see these women at the door to get in, and on the dance floor, and you think “wow, I am in chick heaven! I should be able to meet my wife in this place with all these women!” O.K., you may say some bull-crap to your friends about how your just there to have fun and not pick up on women to line up your excuses for when you go home empty handed, but the reality is your single and in what seems like hot-chick heaven, so of course your there to pick up on women. I’m engaged, so I get to say that I am not there to pick up on women, NOT YOU, SINGLE GUY! O.K., so it seems like there are about 600 ripe for the picking, and surely at least one of them would be “the one” for you, right? This is where people’s expectations go beyond reality, and they don’t even know it! Out of the 600, you are taking a statistical sample of everyone from maybe a 30-mile radius of that club from every different background imaginable. These 600 are all going to have different values, morals, interests, and personalities. I am going to pick numbers out of the air here, but I’d say that only about 1 out of every 10 you talk to are going to match you enough to have a meaningful, dateable relationship. It’s probably more like 1 out of every 50, but I want to try to be liberal here so that I don’t get blamed for exaggerating. So if your odds are 1 out of every 10 is good for a meaningful dating relationship, then that means only 60 out of the 600 might be for you. But, you can’t just go up to all 600 and say, “will the 60 of you who are compatible with me please come down so I can pick you to date?” It don’t work that way. Realistically, you can only talk to (even using the trickery method) 20 women in a night, tops. O.K., this means that at a 10% probability, 2 may be dateable. As you can see, by using very liberal numbers, only 2 out of your 20 prospects may be compatible with you, and you only have about a 10% chance of picking that compatible person. So realistically, with these numbers you would have to go to the bar (a bar with 600 prospective women) 10 times, get a phone number every time, and one of those phone numbers will be a reasonable date for you. If you go the bar every week, in 2 and a half months you’ll have one good date. Now, that is if you’re diligent, if the numbers don’t change, and you’re not like most guys. If you change the numbers, then it’s longer. If you go to the bar once every 2 weeks, then its 5 months before you get a meaningful date. If you don’t get a phone number every time, then it’s longer. If there aren’t 600 prospective females at the bar you go to, then your statistics narrow even more. And, if your like most guys who can only handle 2 rejections in a night, meaning you can only handle talking with 2 people in a night, then it will seem like forever (or never) before you find a meaningful compatible date from the bar. But, at first glance, it seemed like there was 600 available women ripe for the taking. So…do you see how expectations can be overblown, leading to discouragement?

Now, Don’t fret over this. There are things you can do to widen the probability of meeting a compatible person. Noticed how most married people like to give the advise that the bar isn’t a good place to meet women, and that it is better to meet them through a common organization or place, or through friends? This is sound advise, but not for the reasons most people think. People who go to the bar aren’t all sleazes; in fact most of them are normal people like you. However, you have not narrowed your target enough, so it seems like most people you’ll date from the bar are incompatible to you. If (lets say) you’re in the legal profession, and you go to a legal convention, then you’ll be around people with similar education backgrounds, similar professions, and even similar views on life. So, you have just narrowed the statistical probability of meeting someone compatible greatly. So, by finding an interest and attending events and gatherings of people with common interests is a good way to widen your probability for success.

One last, 21st century phenomenon is on-line dating. This is great, and very empowering for women, as well as men. For a small fee, a service can link you up with people who are compatible to you. You can sift through their profiles, and decide whom you might think would be the most compatible. This is a greatly sophisticated way of widening your statistical probability of meeting someone compatible. And, you can even chat back and forth before meeting, thus totally bypassing the “initial attraction phase” all together! Now, back when I was dating, online dating was thought of to be a loser’s way of meeting people, and only a small amount of women did it. Now a days, many people do it, including many good-looking chicks. I have never done it, but it definitely seems like a great way to help your chances of meeting someone compatible to you.

The bottom line here is, be realistic. There is nothing wrong with going to the bar, and if you use this method, you’ll have a phone number almost every time you go. But, those phone numbers may not be to people whom you’ll be compatible with. You may have to go through a lot of incompatible prospects before meeting someone worth dating for a while. So be patient, and be realistic, and you won’t be disappointed.


- Paul Janulis

 

[Cruentus]

I have never done the online thing before, so bare with me, but I read your profile and like to offer some friendly advise.

#1 First of all, I'd imagine that women have a harder time making the innitial contact to mens profiles then vice versa. From what I have heard from a couple of women who do the online dating thing is that they are too busy responding to inquiries to make them. So, I wouldn't be too discouraged that you have only had 3 responses from that.

#2 In business, a general rule is that out of 100 qualified people you contact, 1 will do business with you. This doesn't matter if you are selling cars or candy. Obviously this number changes depending on your target markets and supply and demand, but as a general rule I have found this to be true. I think that this applies to getting dates through any medium as well. So, first off, you should feel pretty proud of the fact that out of 30 e-mails only 2 have written back; your beating the odds already.

Now, with this understanding, we need to make the odds a little bit more realistic then what the advertisements for these dating sites like to point out. If getting to the actual first date is considered "doing business," then odds are you are going to have to reach out to about 100 women to get 1 quality date.

Also, most will not go on a date with you after the first contact; so there is a "sale cycle" involved here. In my industry, I have to contact a prospect on average 6 times before they become a client (example: initial phone call, then e-mail info, then call back, then meeting, then call back, then second meeting and the opening of a new account). This could mean I have to contact them 10 times, or maybe only 3, but really, its more then once or twice. This will be the same, I'd imagine, with this online dating thing. So, with a sort of "sale cycle" until your first date, the person who e-mails you back this month after you contact her will probably not go on a date with you until next month, and after a few back and forth e-mails and maybe even a phone conversation or two (she needs to get comfortable with you).

So, let's crunch the numbers and make this realistic here. If you contact 100 available people a week (even with just a simple e-mail that says, "I read your profile and you seem like an interesting person. I liked the fact that you enjoy doing bla bla bla, because I enjoy that too. Please E-mail me back; I'd like to learn more about you."), then you can expect probably around 20 replies from that effort, but a date with probably only one of them, and not for at least a few weeks to a month. So, if you contact 100 a week, you should expect 4 dates or so for next month. If only 50 a week, expect 2 dates next month; 25 a week, expect 1. These are more realistic expectations here. It is very possible, I think, to have many meaningful dates from a online service; but you've got to be willing to make the contacts.

And yes, it is a numbers game, as much as I hate to tell you. You may be the greatest guy in the world, but the reality is that they won't know that until after they've gone out with you a few times at least. So until that happends, its almost like playing darts blindfolded; women have to use what clues they have to get comfortable before they are willing to try for the bullseye. Your job is to greaten your odds through numbers, and try to make them as comfortable as possible by giving off the right clues.

#3 helping your odds: "matchmaker" type sites. There are some sites that use psychology and compatability exams to match you up with potential women. I would think that this would greatly improve your chances of meeting someone you would be compatable with. I think that this would be a good way to avoid having to play the numbers game to a degree, because I'd think that your odds would be increased.

#4 Your PROFILE: Sorry, for the long reply, but now to your profile. For one, its a very good write up, and you sound like an interesting guy. You might not want to change a thing. You are who you are, and you should never change who you are, even temporarily, just to get a date.

However, If I were doing online dating, I might change the focus a little. As I have said before, the key is getting them comfortable with you, and that is about it. Believe it or not, if you are TOO interesting or unique, a good potential date could feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable. They could feel that they might not match up. And, in your case, your interests are so rare (like medieval jewelry making) that you could be canceling yourself out inadvertantly. In other words, women may feel like, "Oh, he wouldn't be interested in me because I don't know anything about medievel Jewelry or firebreathing," when that could be far from the truth.

So, my focus would not be on all my interests that I persue on my own, or my accomplishments, but would be more focused on things that I like to do with women on dates. Your profile seems more focused on you and your personal interests over interests that you would like to share with a potential mate. I just think that maybe your "uniqueness" might be a little overwhelming at first glance. I can relate to this myself; if my fiancee found out that I enjoy Exotic martial arts, poetry, being politically active, tracking animals, and financial market research, for example, I KNOW I would have scared her off because she enjoys none of these things. If she saw all these things in a profile, she would have felt like she wouldn't be a match with me and she would have moved on. Yet, we are totally compatable; not just according to us, but according to compatability tests we took while going through the marriage process at our church (the tests were secular, though, btw).

So, I might try to focus on things that are more inclusive to what a woman might enjoy sharing with me. So I might NOT say that I enjoy painting murals, writing poetry, and politics, even though this is true. I might instead say that I enjoy stimulating conversations on the arts, and open minded conversations on political views. I might also say that I like sharing my time with others at cultural and artistic venues ranging from art and history exhibits at the local meuseams to renessiance fairs and live entertainment.

I think you get the idea. I wouldn't try to change my interests, I would just try to make them more inclusive so that even someone without the same interests would feel that they could be a part of my interests rather then intimidated by them because they don't share the same exact ones as me.

Dispite my critique, your friend did a very good write up for you. Maybe, have him just tweak it a little?

Just a thought. Sorry for the lengthy reply....again :uhyeah:

:asian:

 

[2fisted]

Some good places to meet women:

Wine bars. Not much competition, and wine is good, and no liking wine doesn't make you gay.

Art galleries: see above.

Go see a good live band. Probably not that many women there, but the ones that are there will on average be cooler than average.

 

[edhead2000]

So Paul, does the same work for women looking for men or do you have a separate book about finding guys?

 

[Cruentus]

So Paul, does the same work for women looking for men or do you have a separate book about finding guys?

lol; ya know, this is the third time a woman has asked me this; 2nd time for this forum (one was PM)!

All I have to say is, I still have to think about it. I, of course, am a male that has been on the male side of the fence, and I have not experienced the persuit from the female side of the fence.

I think that some things will be the same, like the numbers game (the more eligable men you contact, the more likely you'll get a date). But other things, I think, will be very different.

I think that women ultimately have more power then men during the innitial attraction phase because usually they are in the position to accept or decline someone else who is in persuit of them. However, there is the problem if as a woman, your not being persued as much as you'd like, or if you are being persued by the wrong men.

Also, a fundemental difference between men and women, I think, is that for women the initial attraction phase is more emotionally based (they have to "feel comfortable" before giving out a phone number) while for men it is clearly more physically based (does she look good, or do I find her attractive?). So, where men need to make a woman feel comfortable, women need to make themselves noticable and attractive to men. I think that especially if a woman decides to do the persuing, she needs to understand this difference.

So, I am working on it, and we'll see what I can come up with. Perhaps you and some of the other women here on MT can give some feedback after I post it. I am at a disadvantage writing on that subject because I am not a woman, I have never had to persue or be attractive to men, so I may be mistaken in some ways and you all can correct if you think so.

I will say that a good start is to observe the tease. Just like for the men I observed the a-hole to find out what he is doing that seems to "get him the chicks," there is something that the tease is doing that makes guys hit on her all the time (although, truthfully they may not be the "right guys"). Now, just like the guy doesn't want to be an a-hole, the woman doesn't want to be a tease, or a slut. But, there are some traits that the "slut" ot "tease" has that enable men to find her attractive, regardless of what she looks like. Now, understand, when I say "tease" or "slut" I am not talking about the dirty, I haven't bathed in a week crack-whore type slut. That's gross. I am talking about the woman who is put together well (but may or may not be physically good looking by societies standards), a bit flirtatious, and seems to give off that aura of "Yes, I might have sex with you if you come talk to me and say all the right things." She may or may not be sexually permiscious, I am just refering to the aura she gives off. Just like most normal guys hate the A-hole, most women hate the tease. By observing the tease the same way I observed the A-hole, that might be a good start.

So we'll see what I can come up with! :ultracool

On a side note, Internet dating sites, especially the matchmaker ones, seem to be very empowering for women. Basically, it allows the woman to pick and choose between men instead of going out and hoping that the right one will come talk to them. This is a major advantage. Plus, you can talk with them via internet quite a bit before actually having to go out on that first date, and since the discomfort of that initial contact is taken away by the distance of the internet, you can usually find out a lot more about the guy before going out with him then you could in person. It seems like a good way to go.

Anyways, I'll work on the persuit from the womens perspective!

 

[Touch Of Death]

I considered this, so I had a friend who is a writer for a college newspaper write my description for me... its ok... I think she did mention my fondness for sharp weapons tho. Hehe. This is what she wrote:

"The term “unique” comes to mind. I've been an extra in several Hollywood films, and now am involved with an independent film company, in front of and behind the camera. I study an esoteric and obscure Japanese Martial art (who’s name is harder to pronounce than it is to perform) and I am a skilled fire breather. I have a soft spot for pirates. I love camping and the outdoors, enjoying summer road trips on my motorcycle. I also brew my own beer, make chain mail armor and jewelry, and collect medieval weaponry. I'm not adventurous all the time, though. I enjoy movies on the couch, walks in the park, and sitting on the swings. I might look like a Pit Bull, but I'm really a puppy. I'm the sort of guy who will listen and respect you as an equal, but still hold the door open for you. My dream girl is willing to have fun without worrying about looking silly. If you are looking to be treated well, and respected as a person, drop me a line."

Dunno... sounds ok to me, but what do I know...

I would suggest you not give the image of pitbull to a woman before meeting you. Let her decide what and who you look like. If a gal told you she looked like a St. Bernard would you want or need to find out for yourself?
Sean

ps. Most your skills would fit in just fine a rennisance fairs. She is there waiting for you!

 

[arnisador]

Technopunk, are you trying any new approaches to meeting people?

 

[swiftpete]

its all about the pictures. Just do your best to get the very best pics of you that you can, i am on one of these dating sites also and good personal description matched up with crappy pics means no replies or messages. As soon as you get some half decent clear pics of u looking like ur having fun then the messages start rolling in.
Well thats been my experience anyway!
The bits that stand out for me on your profile that i would probably remove are the words "If you are looking to be treated well, and respected as a person"
Of course u can always ignore me but i think that sounds a bit sappy. but hey what do i know.

Beware, most birds that advertise on the internet are secretly fat when u meet them in the flesh though! But there are some nice ones if u look hard enough.

But in my personal experience i think there's nothing like just getting out there and actually talking to women in bars, getting a number and just taking it from there.

Anyhow, good luck!

 

[Sarah]

Jeez.....thanks for that, and im sure all the guys are just gods!

If only you could take a peek in the Ladies Locker Room, you might change your opinion about chicks on line!

Anyways how are things going with your love life John??

Beware, most birds that advertise on the internet are secretly fat when u meet them in the flesh though!

 

[Cryozombie]

Of course u can always ignore me but i think that sounds a bit sappy. but hey what do i know.
Anyhow, good luck!

Im gonna ignore you... but only because this thread is like a year old.

 

[swiftpete]

Hey i didnt say they're all fat!! just i've met up with a few as have my mates and sometimes there is a difference between the pics and what turns up for a drink... But i'm sure you're not one of those girls..!!

But as far as it goes you dont lose a lot turning up for a drink with someone, so take the risk. i've met a few nice ones..

 

[Adept]

So Paul, does the same work for women looking for men or do you have a separate book about finding guys?

There are a lot of things a man has to do to get a date, as Paul has outlined.

You know what a woman has to do?

Her hair.

 

[Sarah]

There are a lot of things a man has to do to get a date, as Paul has outlined.

You know what a woman has to do?

Her hair.

hehe, sometimes not even that..

 

[Ceicei]

I am recalling my single days....

One observation I remember is when I was looking for guys, I had a hard time finding them. When I wasn't looking and just doing the things I enjoy, then the guys came. Go figure! I am guessing desperation does bleed through if the focus is on the search for a mate rather than enjoying the activity/event.

I found mine when I was leading a committee making plans and doing hard, physical work. Seeing him in action eventually attracted me. We became good friends. We didn't start dating until after the tasks required by the committee ended.

I'm glad all of that (single life) is over since I'm married to a terrific guy!

- Ceicei

 

[still learning]

Hello, For women to be interested in you? You must be interested in them! You may want to read the book(any library) "How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. This book may change your life.

To meet people you will need to go where people go to, Join clubs, groups, get involved with the local communty events,volunteer in all the local events, just go down and say may I help. Simile and be friendly. Don't try to hard, just let it happen. To meet nice people? Go where nice people go.

Good luck .......Aloha

 

[Cryozombie]

I am recalling my single days....

One observation I remember is when I was looking for guys, I had a hard time finding them. When I wasn't looking and just doing the things I enjoy, then the guys came. Go figure!
- Ceicei

You know what I find horribly funny about this?

When I was single and looking, and complained to my friends about being unable to meet anyone, they would all give me that advice... "Stop looking, or you will never find anyone" so I would stop looking... just go about my day to day activities. A few months would go by and I would be single still and have met no one, and I would complain to my friends, and you know what they would tell me?

"Well, how the hell do you expect to meet anyone if you arent looking?"

THAT was the single most INFURIATING thing I have encountered in my life. I wanted to stab them all in the eye with an icepick.

Well, not really, but Im sure you know what I mean.

 

[Rich Parsons]

You know what I find horribly funny about this?

When I was single and looking, and complained to my friends about being unable to meet anyone, they would all give me that advice... "Stop looking, or you will never find anyone" so I would stop looking... just go about my day to day activities. A few months would go by and I would be single still and have met no one, and I would complain to my friends, and you know what they would tell me?

"Well, how the hell do you expect to meet anyone if you arent looking?"

THAT was the single most INFURIATING thing I have encountered in my life. I wanted to stab them all in the eye with an icepick.

Well, not really, but Im sure you know what I mean.

Techno,

You forgot to add in the "You must get out more, and try to be available" comment. BTW: I carry red and black cheap pens in my pocket for work, and I wanted to use these to DOT someone's eyes for them.

I hear you brother.

 

[Ceicei]

You know what I find horribly funny about this?

they would all give me that advice... "Stop looking, or you will never find anyone" so I would stop looking... and you know what they would tell me?

"Well, how the hell do you expect to meet anyone if you arent looking?"

THAT was the single most INFURIATING thing I have encountered in my life. I wanted to stab them all in the eye with an icepick.

Well, not really, but Im sure you know what I mean.

Sorry, I don't have an icepick eye stab smilie. This will have to do.

Those kinds of comments from friends....enough to make anyone go crazy.

Any progress made so far?

- Ceicei

 

[Dronak]

Well, I never had all that much time for socializing in grad school. Basically I could do one main extracurricular activity. I picked up MA later, when I was almost finished. From the beginning, I did ballroom dancing and met a lot of people that way. Unfortunately for me, all of the women I've been interested in have been already taken and/or not interested in me, but it's still been a pretty good way to meet people.

 

[Cryozombie]

Any progress made so far?

- Ceicei

Yeah. I came to the conclusion that its not worth the effort.

The people Ive met, and the things I have heard and seen really really made me see that it wasnt worth it.