How Do You Define "Martial Arts?"

[Kung Fu Wang]

IMO, MA is a set of principles and strategies that can map into many techniques and methods.

Principles used in Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) are:

撕(Si) - Tearing
崩(Beng) - Cracking
捅(Tong) - Striking push
褪(tun) - Hand pushing
肘(Zhou) - Elbow pressing
蓋(Gai) - Covering hands
攞(Lou)- Pulling hands
搖(Yao) - Body-shaking hands
捯(Dao) - Reverse arm-holding
抖(Dou) – Shaking
分(Fen) - Separate hands
掖(Ye) - Hand tucking
引(Yin) - Arm guiding
捧(Peng) - Arm raising
架(Jia) - Elbow Locking
圈(Quan) – Under hook
抄(Chao) - Over hook
抹(Mo) - Wiping
偏(Pian) – Head circling
夾(Jia) – Clamping head
摘(Zai) – Helmet removing
摀(Wu) – Face covering
速(Su) – Forehead push
墬(Zhui) - Sticking drop
撈 (Lao) – Leg seize
環(Huan) – Neck surrounding
托(Tuo) – Chin pushing
封(Feng) – Throat/waist blocking
撒(Sa) - Casting
飄(Piao) - Floating hand
踢(Ti) - Forward kick,
撮(Cuo) - Scooping kick,
粘(Zhan) - Sticking kick,
撞(Zhuang) - Trunk hitting,
靠(Kao) - Advance squeeze,
彈(Tan) - Spring,
挑(Tiao) - Hooking kick,
纏(Chan) - Foot entangling,
合(He) - Inner hook,
掏(Tao) - Inner knee seizing,
崩(Beng) – Crack,
穿(Chuan) - Fireman’s carry,
撿(Jian) - Foot picking,
沖(Chong) - Inner kick,
掛(Gua) - Inner heel sweep,
刀(Dao) - Inner sickle,
别 (Bie) - Break,
撩(Liao) - Back kick,
扣(Kou) - Knee seizing,
切(Qie) - Front cut,
削(Xiao) - Sickle hooking,
擰(Ning) - Wheeling,
撳(Qin) - Pressing,
摟(Lou) - Spine lock,
搵(Wen) – Lifting,
揣(Chuai) – Overhead,
勾(Gou) - Back sickle,
抱(Bao) - Back raising,
轟(Hong) - Shoving,
裏(Li) - Back inner hook,
擓(Kuai) - Leg bending lift,

For example, principle

- "踢(Ti) - Forward kick" can be mapped into 35 different techniques.
- "别 (Bie) - Break" can be mapped into 32 different techniques.
- ...

Strategies used in Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) are:

- Get both legs if you can, otherwise, get one leg and then get the other leg afterward.
- 1 is better than 1,2. 1,2 is better than 1,2,3.
- Use pull to set up push. Use push to set up pull.
- Use linear attack to set up circular attack. Use circular attack to set up linear attack.
- Apply a force vector. If your opponent resists, borrow his force, and apply a opposite direction force vector.
- Use your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm.
- You want your opponent to fall into where you are standing. You want to occupy the space where your opponent is standing.
- If you kick, I'll run you down. If you punch, I'll run you down. If you do nothing, I'll still run you down.
- Use your back arm to control your opponent's leading arm. Use your leading arm to fight his back arm.
- Move from wrist gate into elbow gate, and then into head/shoulder gate.
- ...

It will take more than one person's life time to master a MA system like this. But MA can also be as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- earth meets head.

 

[Ironbear24]

I do not 'define' martial arts. I practice a form of it. I don't really care if other people take issue with whether or not 'A' is a martial art but 'B' is not while 'C' is something entirely different. It's all a lot of blah, blah, blah to me.

When I talk about the form of karate I train in with my family, as I recently did when they came to visit over the holidays, I say "Isshin Ryu is a form of martial arts that originated in Okinawa in the 1950s." None of them said "Gee, what's a martial art? I never heard that term before." They all knew exactly what I meant, because the term is in common parlance among the untrained public. So I say "martial arts" and no one is lost, confused, or arguing with me over whether or not karate is a 'martial art'.

Only martial artists get their panties in a twist over this kind of nonsense. Typically, 'martial arts' is what they do, and whatever you do, well that's not martial arts at all.

Whatever. Go do kata, is my advice.

Kata is a waste of time and doesn't teach anything about fighting. (Sarcasm)

To me martial arts means an unarmed fighting system. It seems the majority of people feel the same, that is how it happens to be used in society.

What's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear martial arts?

For me it's people beating eachother up without anything but their own natural tools. Fists, feet ect.

 

[Ironbear24]

IMO, MA is a set of principles and strategies that can map into many techniques and methods.

Principles used in Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) are:

撕(Si) - Tearing
崩(Beng) - Cracking
捅(Tong) - Striking push
褪(tun) - Hand pushing
肘(Zhou) - Elbow pressing
蓋(Gai) - Covering hands
攞(Lou)- Pulling hands
搖(Yao) - Body-shaking hands
捯(Dao) - Reverse arm-holding
抖(Dou) – Shaking
分(Fen) - Separate hands
掖(Ye) - Hand tucking
引(Yin) - Arm guiding
捧(Peng) - Arm raising
架(Jia) - Elbow Locking
圈(Quan) – Under hook
抄(Chao) - Over hook
抹(Mo) - Wiping
偏(Pian) – Head circling
夾(Jia) – Clamping head
摘(Zai) – Helmet removing
摀(Wu) – Face covering
速(Su) – Forehead push
墬(Zhui) - Sticking drop
撈 (Lao) – Leg seize
環(Huan) – Neck surrounding
托(Tuo) – Chin pushing
封(Feng) – Throat/waist blocking
撒(Sa) - Casting
飄(Piao) - Floating hand
踢(Ti) - Forward kick,
撮(Cuo) - Scooping kick,
粘(Zhan) - Sticking kick,
撞(Zhuang) - Trunk hitting,
靠(Kao) - Advance squeeze,
彈(Tan) - Spring,
挑(Tiao) - Hooking kick,
纏(Chan) - Foot entangling,
合(He) - Inner hook,
掏(Tao) - Inner knee seizing,
崩(Beng) – Crack,
穿(Chuan) - Fireman’s carry,
撿(Jian) - Foot picking,
沖(Chong) - Inner kick,
掛(Gua) - Inner heel sweep,
刀(Dao) - Inner sickle,
别 (Bie) - Break,
撩(Liao) - Back kick,
扣(Kou) - Knee seizing,
切(Qie) - Front cut,
削(Xiao) - Sickle hooking,
擰(Ning) - Wheeling,
撳(Qin) - Pressing,
摟(Lou) - Spine lock,
搵(Wen) – Lifting,
揣(Chuai) – Overhead,
勾(Gou) - Back sickle,
抱(Bao) - Back raising,
轟(Hong) - Shoving,
裏(Li) - Back inner hook,
擓(Kuai) - Leg bending lift,

For example, principle

- "踢(Ti) - Forward kick" can be mapped into 35 different techniques.
- "别 (Bie) - Break" can be mapped into 32 different techniques.
- ...

Strategies used in Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) are:

- Get both legs if you can, otherwise, get one leg and then get the other leg afterward.
- 1 is better than 1,2. 1,2 is better than 1,2,3.
- Use pull to set up push. Use push to set up pull.
- Use linear attack to set up circular attack. Use circular attack to set up linear attack.
- Apply a force vector. If your opponent resists, borrow his force, and apply a opposite direction force vector.
- Use your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm.
- You want your opponent to fall into where you are standing. You want to occupy the space where your opponent is standing.
- If you kick, I'll run you down. If you punch, I'll run you down. If you do nothing, I'll still run you down.
- Use your back arm to control your opponent's leading arm. Use your leading arm to fight his back arm.
- Move from wrist gate into elbow gate, and then into head/shoulder gate.
- ...

It will take more than one person's life time to master a MA system like this. But MA can also be as simple as:

- fist meets face.
- earth meets head.

The fight went to the ground .

 

[Ironbear24]

Again, why the "unarmed" qualification?

There are weapons in martial arts but generally speaking the definition of it is not used correctly.

It means war art, so if you want to put it that way is shooting someone a martial art? There are of course more traditional weapons but when it comes to what is commonly practiced it is the unarmed stuff.

That is what I have seen anyway, I see a lot more people training unarmed fighting vs training with a guan dao or a bo.

 

[Buka]

To me...

Martial Art -

Martial - adjective, /mahr-shuh l/ - of, suitable for, or associated with war and fighting.
Art - noun, /ärt/ - something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings.

Martial Art - noun. A bunch a guys, usually costumed, but not always, practicing beating each other up using a system of "beat up things" that some guy, some where (and probably his friends) thunk up.

But it Sho Nuff be pretty awesome.

 

[Ironbear24]

To me...

Martial Art -

Martial - adjective, /mahr-shuh l/ - of, suitable for, or associated with war and fighting.
Art - noun, /ärt/ - something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings.

Martial Art - noun. A bunch a guys, usually costumed, but not always, practicing beating each other up using a system of "beat up things" that some guy, some where (and probably his friends) thunk up.

But it Sho Nuff be pretty awesome.

Martial arts - People hitting eachother in the head over and over again until they forget the definition of what they are practicing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are weapons in martial arts but generally speaking the definition of it is not used correctly.

It means war art, so if you want to put it that way is shooting someone a martial art? There are of course more traditional weapons but when it comes to what is commonly practiced it is the unarmed stuff.

That is what I have seen anyway, I see a lot more people training unarmed fighting vs training with a guan dao or a bo.

There's more emphasis on the unarmed, but the armed parts are still part of "martial arts". And, yes, shooting firearms is a modern martial art, when it's pursued systematically. It's the successor of archery. When I used to go every week and spend a couple of hours at the range on Saturday (interestingly, often heading over right after NGA class) and practice shooting hundreds of rounds to sharpen that skill, that was MA practice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Kata is a waste of time and doesn't teach anything about fighting. (Sarcasm)

To me martial arts means an unarmed fighting system. It seems the majority of people feel the same, that is how it happens to be used in society.

What's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear martial arts?

For me it's people beating eachother up without anything but their own natural tools. Fists, feet ect.

Actually, for most people, they'll also picture the Hollywood ninja, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and all the other sfuff they've seen in movies. Weapons are a part of it, though most of us spend most of our time practicing empty-hand techniques. (The reason for that probably has more to do with cost and safety concerns as MA became a civilian pursuit.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I come to you with only Karate, empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor, should it be a matter of life or death, right or wrong, then here are my weapons, Karate, my empty hands.

GM Ed Parker.

So going on this, yeah, it would appear that we're just talking about empty hands, when we say martial arts, yet many arts, include weapons training, with some being more weapon based than others. So that being said, we may as well include weapons in the discussion.

There are entire martial arts that are exclusively (or nearly so) weapons training. We should include them because they are martial arts, not because weapons happen to show up in mostly empty-hand styles.

 

[Ironbear24]

There's more emphasis on the unarmed, but the armed parts are still part of "martial arts". And, yes, shooting firearms is a modern martial art, when it's pursued systematically. It's the successor of archery. When I used to go every week and spend a couple of hours at the range on Saturday (interestingly, often heading over right after NGA class) and practice shooting hundreds of rounds to sharpen that skill, that was MA practice.

All the more reason why the terms TMA and MMA are silly. If firing a gun is an MMA while boxing is also one that is a bit silly. Boxing is something that has been around since ancient Greece while guns didn't show up until the 18th century? Then we have Tae Kwon Do which came around in the 1950's but that is a traditional art. (Rolls eyes)

I'm not knocking you for this or anything, I just don't understand the usage of said terms and that just reminded me why.

Actually, for most people, they'll also picture the Hollywood ninja, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and all the other sfuff they've seen in movies. Weapons are a part of it, though most of us spend most of our time practicing empty-hand techniques. (The reason for that probably has more to do with cost and safety concerns as MA became a civilian pursuit.)

I will be totally honest and say what first brought me to martial arts as a kid in the 90's was the video game double dragon and the TV show mighty morphin power rangers.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

All the more reason why the terms TMA and MMA are silly. If firing a gun is an MMA while boxing is also one that is a bit silly. Boxing is something that has been around since ancient Greece while guns didn't show up until the 18th century? Then we have Tae Kwon Do which came around in the 1950's but that is a traditional art. (Rolls eyes)

I'm not knocking you for this or anything, I just don't understand the usage of said terms and that just reminded me why.

I tend to use them to refer to two different aspects. "Modern martial art", to me, refers to one that's relatively new in most aspects (like firearms), or simply one that exists specifically in a modern incarnation (like boxing, which is very different in the last couple hundred years). "Traditional Martial Art", to me, refers to a system that maintains specific traditions from its source culture. Thus, NGA, which started in the 1940's, counts as a TMA to me, because of the rituals and cultural references it maintains.

Others have different usages, for sure, so the terms aren't highly meaningful except in context.

I will be totally honest and say what first brought me to martial arts as a kid in the 90's was the video game double dragon and the TV show mighty morphin power rangers.

Enter the Ninja. That's all I'm saying.

 

[drop bear]

All the more reason why the terms TMA and MMA are silly. If firing a gun is an MMA while boxing is also one that is a bit silly. Boxing is something that has been around since ancient Greece while guns didn't show up until the 18th century? Then we have Tae Kwon Do which came around in the 1950's but that is a traditional art. (Rolls eyes)

I'm not knocking you for this or anything, I just don't understand the usage of said terms and that just reminded me why.



I will be totally honest and say what first brought me to martial arts as a kid in the 90's was the video game double dragon and the TV show mighty morphin power rangers.

TMA isnt really defined by age though. It is defined more by ritual. Which is effectively what a tradition is.

 

[drop bear]

I tend to use them to refer to two different aspects. "Modern martial art", to me, refers to one that's relatively new in most aspects (like firearms), or simply one that exists specifically in a modern incarnation (like boxing, which is very different in the last couple hundred years). "Traditional Martial Art", to me, refers to a system that maintains specific traditions from its source culture. Thus, NGA, which started in the 1940's, counts as a TMA to me, because of the rituals and cultural references it maintains.

Others have different usages, for sure, so the terms aren't highly meaningful except in context.




Enter the Ninja. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Kata is a waste of time and doesn't teach anything about fighting. (Sarcasm)

To me martial arts means an unarmed fighting system. It seems the majority of people feel the same, that is how it happens to be used in society.

What's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear martial arts?

For me it's people beating eachother up without anything but their own natural tools. Fists, feet ect.

Why does it matter? If someone says what you do is martial arts, do you do it better now? If they say it is not, do you do it worse now? Does it amount to a hill of beans what someone calls it?

I can't be arsed to worry about definitions. I do what I do. Call it anything you like.

 

[Ironbear24]

Why does it matter? If someone says what you do is martial arts, do you do it better now? If they say it is not, do you do it worse now? Does it amount to a hill of beans what someone calls it?

I can't be arsed to worry about definitions. I do what I do. Call it anything you like.

Many people I know call it a waste of time but I that doesn't make me stop enjoying it.

 

[drop bear]

Many people I know call it a waste of time but I that doesn't make me stop enjoying it.

The question kind of is why are you definining it?

 

[Ironbear24]

The question kind of is why are you definining it?

Honestly it's not something I spend much time on. I just figured I'd have a go at it because of the thread. When I get asked about what I enjoy doing I usually say martial arts.

Then it's fallowed up with "oh like karate kid stuff? And UFC?" I just say yeah sure. I don't really care enough to elaborate anything beyond "I enjoy martial arts."

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some people train MA but they are not interested in fighting. They claim that they train MA for "self-cultivation" and "inner peace". What exactly is "self-cultivation" and "inner peace"?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Some people train MA but they are not interested in fighting. They claim that they train MA for "self-cultivation" and "inner peace". What exactly is "self-cultivation" and "inner peace"?

Self-cultivation is, to me, modifying the trajectory of my life in such a way that reflects my dreams and aspirations, that satisfies my desire to be a better man, to give back, to be a reflection of my Creator.

Inner peace is being able live with who I am and who I am becoming.

 

[Buka]

I will be totally honest and say what first brought me to martial arts as a kid in the 90's was the video game double dragon and the TV show mighty morphin power rangers.

How silly.

Hardly in the serious way "I" was first brought to Martial Arts - from the ads about Dim Mak in the back of comic books and seeing Kenpo, which they called Judo, on The Lucy Show.