How do you become a "Datu"?

[The Game]

I wants to know.

I know Presas appointed 6 guys as Datus. The debate on that's famous. I know a couple other guys also use the title. Thing is, they all seem to use it as a tie in to rank. I recently saw a press release that some gm awarded a "Datu Award" to a couple of guys, now one of them's claiming to be a datu. Isn't that kinda like me getting the "Presidents Award" then wandering around telling everyone I'm a President. Seems stupid to me, but what do I know.

Anyway, how much to be a Datu, and can I be a Soke-Datu, and is there a discount with it?

 

[Guro Harold]

I wants to know.

I know Presas appointed 6 guys as Datus. The debate on that's famous. I know a couple other guys also use the title. Thing is, they all seem to use it as a tie in to rank. I recently saw a press release that some gm awarded a "Datu Award" to a couple of guys, now one of them's claiming to be a datu. Isn't that kinda like me getting the "Presidents Award" then wandering around telling everyone I'm a President. Seems stupid to me, but what do I know.

Anyway, how much to be a Datu, and can I be a Soke-Datu, and is there a discount with it?

It comes to a point that people do, what they do, for what ever reason why they do it, and the only thing we can do about it, is to say congratulations or take leave of it.

 

[The Game]

I don't care none to much for fancy titles, specially made up ones, but I guess you have a point.

 

[Morgan]

I wants to know.

I know Presas appointed 6 guys as Datus. The debate on that's famous. I know a couple other guys also use the title. Thing is, they all seem to use it as a tie in to rank. I recently saw a press release that some gm awarded a "Datu Award" to a couple of guys, now one of them's claiming to be a datu. Isn't that kinda like me getting the "Presidents Award" then wandering around telling everyone I'm a President. Seems stupid to me, but what do I know.

Anyway, how much to be a Datu, and can I be a Soke-Datu, and is there a discount with it?

My questions for The Game are:

1. Where can this press release be viewed?
2. Who is the "gm" who gave the "Datu Award"?
3. Who are the "couple of guys" who recieved this award?
4. Who is the one person "claiming to be a datu"?
5. Did you contact those "couple of guys" to see if they would tell
you/us how much and/or if there was a discount?

Without any names it's hard to make a reasonable evaluation of the value of the title or if it is a reasonale award. I know that Professor Remy Presas is deceased and the award could not have possibly come from him. OTOH, was he the only GM who awarded the title within his system or merely the first to do so in North America?

:asian:

Morgan

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I found what the Game was writing about on Budo Seek:

A Special Announcement

I am pleased to announce on behalf of GM Vicente Sanchez - founder of Kali Arnis International Federation, founding member of the Philippine Council of Kali, Eskrima, Arnis, Masters and Senior Master in both Modern Arnis and Lightning Scientific Arnis, has chosen to recognize Dr. Jerome Barber of the Independent Eskrima Kenpo Arnis Associates and Punong Guro Tom Bolden of the American Modern Arnis Associates as Grand Masters of their respective organizations effective 25 April 2010. GM Sanchez’ decision to grant recognition to GMs Barber and Bolden was based upon their individual accomplishments in the martial arts, the quality of students they have produced over the years and the number of years they have been teaching FMA.

Additionally, GM Sanchez has chosen to honor Jerome Barber, Tom Bolden and Bram Frank with a Datu award. The award citation reads:

“CONGRATULATIONS! Your marked display of loyalty and diligence rendered you one of our distinguished achievers nominated as DATU in the practice and propagation of the Filipino Martial Arts. This brings pride and encouragement to us and to fellow arnisadores who also work to attain greater heights in these endeavors. With perfection in mind and spirit, let us preserve such dynamism so that we can linger longer as one of the world’s pride. MABUHAY!”

The Datu Award is does not bestow a rank, title or privilege upon the recipient. It is simply in recognition of dedication and excellence in teaching and propagating FMA - nothing more, nothing less.

Congratulations to Jerome, Tom amd Bram. This is proof positive that favoring quality over quantity really does pay off in the long run.

 

[MJS]

AFAIK, this title, Datu, was given to select people just like the MOTTs. IMHO, if the Prof. wanted to give someone a rank, a title, whatever, that was his call. However, for me, and this not only goes for Arnis, but for Kenpo, the other art that I train in...I'm not really concerned with titles. What concerns me, is what the person can teach, how well they can teach it, how well they understand it, etc. Those, IMO, are the things that matter the most.

I'm not going to avoid training with someone like Tim Hartman or Kelly Worden because they have datu titles. I'm going to train with them because of what they can offer me, and everyone else in the FMA world.

Just my .02.

 

[Guro Harold]

Semantically, IMHO, it appears that the language is implies that this is purely an honorary title in recognition of their contribution from GM Sanchez.

How this title should be properly used is also actually between the recipients and GM Sanchez as well.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

If there has been some misinterpretation it could be do to a language barrier or the fact that they haven't met. Sometime the message get changed through the chain of command.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Titles do not make the practitioner! No instead for good or bad their skill sets speak for them!

 

[Morgan]

I found what the Game was writing about on Budo Seek:

A Special Announcement

I am pleased to announce on behalf of GM Vicente Sanchez - founder of Kali Arnis International Federation, founding member of the Philippine Council of Kali, Eskrima, Arnis, Masters and Senior Master in both Modern Arnis and Lightning Scientific Arnis, has chosen to recognize Dr. Jerome Barber of the Independent Eskrima Kenpo Arnis Associates and Punong Guro Tom Bolden of the American Modern Arnis Associates as Grand Masters of their respective organizations effective 25 April 2010.
(My emphasis added)

GM Sanchez’ decision to grant recognition to GMs Barber and Bolden was based upon their individual accomplishments in the martial arts, the quality of students they have produced over the years and the number of years they have been teaching FMA.

Additionally, GM Sanchez has chosen to honor Jerome Barber, Tom Bolden and Bram Frank with a Datu award. The award citation reads:

“CONGRATULATIONS! Your marked display of loyalty and diligence rendered you one of our distinguished achievers nominated as DATU in the practice and propagation of the Filipino Martial Arts. This brings pride and encouragement to us and to fellow arnisadores who also work to attain greater heights in these endeavors. With perfection in mind and
spirit, let us preserve such dynamism so that we can linger longer as one of the world’s pride. MABUHAY!”

The Datu Award is does not bestow a rank, title or privilege upon the recipient. It is simply in recognition of dedication and excellence in teaching and propagating FMA - nothing more, nothing less.
(Datu Hartman emphasis added)

Congratulations to Jerome, Tom amd Bram. This is proof positive that favoring quality over quantity really does pay off in the long run.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Thank you GM/Datu Hartman for your excellent post which very clearly names everyone involved in the comments eluded to by "The Game". Now it is possible to fully evaluate the significance of the 'Datu' award alluded to by "The Game".

First and foremost the award of "Datu" is actually secondary to the recognition by GM Sanchez of Dr. Barber and PG Bolden
as Grand Master(s) of their resepctive systems! This is quite
significant because what we have here is a Filipino GM, with some 60+ years of training and teaching in the FMA in his homeland, recognizing 2 African-Americans as GMs within their own right(s) and system(s)!

How often has that happened since the FMA have gone international? Secondly, how often have we heard that the FMA must be in one's blood? An obvious reference to the idea that only a Filipino can truely master and understand the FMA.

Clearly GM Sanchez has seen somethin in these two men that he likes and respects enough to put talent and merit ahead of
nationality! I stand and salute ALL 3 of these men as true practicitioners of the FMA in the fullest sense of honor and dedicated committment.

"The Game" did not give us all of the facts in his initial post.
I also want to acknowledge and applaude GM/Datu Tim Hartman for posting the full and complete statement regarding the announcement of the GMship(s) that went to Dr. Barber and PG Bolden. I am fully aware of the disputes that have gone down between GM/Datu Hartman and Dr. Barber over a number of years, but that did not prevent GM/Datu Hartman from stepping up to the plate and doing the right thing by both of these men.

I stand and salute you GM/Datu Hartman for your bold and honorable behavior in this matter.

Given the choice between using "GM" and "Datu", I seriously doubt that either of these men would opt for using the latter title, which is really an honorary designation. GM/Datu Hartman was absolutely correct in highlighting that part of the announcement in his replication of the original document.

Congratulations to everyone involved in this announcement,
Dr. Barber, PG Bolden and GM Frank (earned prior to GM Sanchez's declarition) and GM/Datu Hartman.

Respectfully Yours,

Morgan
​

 

[Morgan]

Titles do not make the practitioner! No instead for good or bad their skill sets speak for them!

I fully concur with your comment above, Sir. I believe that PG Bolden has stated that "Skill is Rank" and he has also printed that on his American Modern Arnis Associates organizational tee-shirts.

Morgan

 

[Morgan]

AFAIK, this title, Datu, was given to select people just like the MOTTs. IMHO, if the Prof. wanted to give someone a rank, a title, whatever, that was his call. However, for me, and this not only goes for Arnis, but for Kenpo, the other art that I train in...I'm not really concerned with titles. What concerns me, is what the person can teach, how well they can teach it, how well they understand it, etc. Those, IMO, are the things that matter the most.

I'm not going to avoid training with someone like Tim Hartman or Kelly Worden because they have datu titles. I'm going to train with them because of what they can offer me, and everyone else in the FMA world.

Just my .02.

I fully agree with your statement above and I can only add that perhaps you might consider training with PG Bolden as well Datu Harman and Datu Worden, since he is just a couple hour drive away from Crommwell, CT. I'm merely making a suggestion and given that PG Bolden has 40+ years of FMA training under his belt, a short drive could yield some very positive insights.

Respectfully,

Morgan

 

[Carol]

First and foremost the award of "Datu" is actually secondary to the recognition by GM Sanchez of Dr. Barber and PG Bolden
as Grand Master(s) of their resepctive systems! This is quite
significant because what we have here is a Filipino GM, with some 60+ years of training and teaching in the FMA in his homeland, recognizing 2 African-Americans as GMs within their own right(s) and system(s)!
​

Good to see these barriers coming down. :asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

Good to see these barriers coming down. :asian:

Respectfully, they along with Doug Pierre, Sifu Lee Lowery, and several others had already broken barriers.

 

[MJS]

I fully agree with your statement above and I can only add that perhaps you might consider training with PG Bolden as well Datu Harman and Datu Worden, since he is just a couple hour drive away from Crommwell, CT. I'm merely making a suggestion and given that PG Bolden has 40+ years of FMA training under his belt, a short drive could yield some very positive insights.

Respectfully,

Morgan

Anythings possible. Although still quite a ways away, I do plan on attending the big seminar in 2011. I'm certainly looking forward to training with everyone.

BTW, are you planning on being there?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Congrats to those receiving the award.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I found the announcement in 2 places, Budoseek and Topica. Now it's here too which is cool.
Budoseek, and Topica
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?27735-A-Special-Announcement
http://lists.topica.com/lists/Escrima-Kuntao-Arnis/read/message.html?mid=813806530&sort=d&start=2162

On a thread on Topica, Dr. Barber stated the award was a surprise, and was given with no charge, obligation, etc.

As to the question of how do you become a Datu? That's easy.
- You get the title from someone who issues it as a title.
- You get the rank from someone who issues it as a rank
- You get the award from someone who issues it as an award
- You buy it from someone who sells it
- You use it because you like it.

The first 3, I'm ok with, the last 2, not so much.

Tim got his, as did 5 others, from GM Remy Presas as titles recognizing his skill and ability. Jerome, as did at least 2 others, got his from GM Vic Sanchez as awards recognizing his ability and contributions. All those named and not named (here by me) to my knowledge are active in promoting the FMA, and are passionate about what they do.

Regarding the old issues between Hartman and Barber and their respective groups, MartialTalk doesn't welcome rehashes or new exchanges on that topic, and anyone popping in to dig up the old 'unpleasantness' will be suspended until such time as they can prove to us they aren't a sock puppet for someone stirring up old crap again. "The Game"s been asked to send in a copy of his Gov ID, notarized. He'll be back if/when his bonafides check out.

 

[Dan Anderson]

I'm late on this thread but I posted a congratulations to Bram, Jerome & Tom in the Topica forum site on their recognitions.

GM Vic Sanchez is respected in the PI and it is an honor to the recipients that he recognizes their achievements.

Congrats, guys!

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Anythings possible. Although still quite a ways away, I do plan on attending the big seminar in 2011. I'm certainly looking forward to training with everyone.

BTW, are you planning on being there?

I am. I have changed my mind and will teach something other than espada y daga. Haven't figured out what yet. Got lots of time.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[MJS]

I am. I have changed my mind and will teach something other than espada y daga. Haven't figured out what yet. Got lots of time.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Looking forward to meeting and training with you and the others as well.