How can i develop power in my knifehand strike?

[Fungus]

Some years ago i was reading one of He Il Cho's books where he was addressing kicking the heavy bag and opines that you should not be kicking any bag over 100lbs. saying it put too much strain on the joints and IIRC 60lbs is enough to develop power.

Hmm I'm probably overdoing the force. I have a ~100 lbs bag tucked up against a corner, so it can't swing, but it's just becuse I have too little space to dedicate for the bag. Yet, kicking that nonmobile bag is butter compared to the impact kicking into someones knee blocks or shins, even with shin pads, which happens regularly in fight, the last bone bruise took more than a 1-2months to heal but its now good so i cna kick hard again. I hope I learned some lessons also from the bruises, but getting permanently hurt would be bad.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I trained spearhand in my youth. That was a LONG time ago. You can certainly strike hard targets with it, IF you have trained and conditioned the hand. But the risk of injury will pretty much always be higher than other options.

I no longer train and condition for spearhand strikes. I will, when asked, explain to students how to do so, but I also caution them about the risks and discourage them from doing this sort of conditioning. None of the students who have approached me about this training have elected to follow through with it. I think that speaks well of them.

I think there are probably very, very, few people who actually train for spearhand strikes these days.

About 25 years ago I asked my Sigung if iron palm was real. He said, yes but you don’t want to train that because of what it will do to your hand long term. I asked what would happen, he said “ Well no woman will want you to touch her with that hand, and furthermore, you won’t want to touch yourself
with it either.” Thusly, I have cultivated the silk palm rather than the iron palm and have no regrets.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

About 25 years ago I asked my Sigung if iron palm was real. He said, yes but you don’t want to train that because of what it will do to your hand long term. I asked what would happen, he said “ Well no woman will want you to touch her with that hand, and furthermore, you won’t want to touch yourself
with it either.” Thusly, I have cultivated the silk palm rather than the iron palm and have no regrets.

My long fist teacher told me that after he had trained the iron palm, his hands was consistently shaking. He could not even hold a pair of chopsticks when eating. The air that he breath out was hot.

From the Chinese medicine point of view, to use your fingertips to strike can hurt your eyes. I don't do the fingertips and back palm training. I only do the palm, palm heel, and palm edge training.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Dirty Dog is spot on regarding the necessity of radically conditioning the fingers for an effective spear hand or single finger strike. It is a price few would be willing to pay these days.

The other important thing in delivering such finger strikes, or any pressure/vital point attack, is the accuracy required to hit such a small specific target. For this reason, such strikes must be preceded by a grab or other immobilizing technique that allows one to control the window of opportunity to land it.

For these reasons I don't place much emphasis on the spear hand/finger strikes. They're just not practical IMO for self-defense other than an eye poke. I do teach such techniques for tradition's sake as they are in kata, but that's as far as I go with them.

 

[Dirty Dog]

For these reasons I don't place much emphasis on the spear hand/finger strikes. They're just not practical IMO for self-defense other than an eye poke. I do teach such techniques for tradition's sake as they are in kata, but that's as far as I go with them.

That's what leads to students asking about conditioning for these techniques. I tell them I don't think it's worth the risk for the limited practical application. I do teach one knuckle punches. They do an admirable job of focusing power in a small area with a much lower risk factor than spear hand strikes.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I do teach one knuckle punches. They do an admirable job of focusing power in a small area with a much lower risk factor than spear hand strikes.

For me, the normal knuckle fist is so ingrained it isn't worth the effort to modify it for a single strike - too much brain power, especially in a self-defense situation. While most Okinawan styles teach and use this strike in kata, my style does not so I don't feel obligated to teach it, other than to point out its traditional use.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I trained spearhand in my youth. That was a LONG time ago. You can certainly strike hard targets with it, IF you have trained and conditioned the hand. But the risk of injury will pretty much always be higher than other options.

I no longer train and condition for spearhand strikes. I will, when asked, explain to students how to do so, but I also caution them about the risks and discourage them from doing this sort of conditioning. None of the students who have approached me about this training have elected to follow through with it. I think that speaks well of them.

I think there are probably very, very, few people who actually train for spearhand strikes these days.

It's in the form I'm currently working on, but honestly I'll probably never use it beyond the form. A regular punch to the solar plexus Is better imo. Eye strikes with those are a bit risky too but I think there's better eye attacks than spear hand or finger jab.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think there's better eye attacks than spear hand or finger jab.

To slide your fingers across your opponent's eyes is better than finger jab. You have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that one of your fingers can get to one of your opponent's eyes.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

To slide your fingers across your opponent's eyes is better than finger jab. You have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that one of your fingers can get to one of your opponent's eyes.

I agree, this is more effective and easy to accomplish.

 

[HighKick]

Some years ago i was reading one of He Il Cho's books where he was addressing kicking the heavy bag and opines that you should not be kicking any bag over 100lbs. saying it put too much strain on the joints and IIRC 60lbs is enough to develop power.

I think I have the same book (have most of his). I fully agree with his assertions.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's in the form I'm currently working on, but honestly I'll probably never use it beyond the form. A regular punch to the solar plexus Is better imo. Eye strikes with those are a bit risky too but I think there's better eye attacks than spear hand or finger jab.

Spear hands are a poor choice for eye strikes because they're too broad. If you're actually trying to strike the eye, not the area around the eye, a single finger is best. Even better is a grab and thumbs...

 

[Tigerwarrior]

To slide your fingers across your opponent's eyes is better than finger jab. You have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that one of your fingers can get to one of your opponent's eyes.

Do you have a video of this technique? Not literally doing it full speed on someone but a demonstration of how to do it? I'm very interested in trying it out.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I think I have the same book (have most of his). I fully agree with his assertions.

What are the name of his books? I don't have any tkd books except a Vietnam US army tkd manual from the 70s. I'd be interested in checking out some tkd books. I read some of "a killing art" but never got to finish it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you have a video of this technique? Not literally doing it full speed on someone but a demonstration of how to do it? I'm very interested in trying it out.

Only have a solo training drill. Don't have any partner training drill. In the following 8 moves combo,

1. Use your right hand to push your opponent's leading arm to your right.
2. Use your left hand to take over and free your right hand.
3. Your right hand fingers strike across your opponent's eyes (or knife hand strike on the side of his head).

Your right hand makes 2 continuous clockwise circles. The 1st circle pulls down your opponent's guard (your left hand makes clockwise circle to take over). The 2nd circle fingers strike across his eyes. 1-2-3 is called "switching hands" in CMA.

 

[drop bear]

The issue with this is if you get the wrong angle on the throat/your hand you can still seriously damage your hand, or if someone moves and you hit something hard instead (ie: they see the spear coming, duck their head and push in, now you're hitting their jaw instead). Obviously, you can't control everything and there's always some risk, but using those strikes seems like extra risk for little reward.

Also a knuckle in the eyeball still really sucks.

 

[drop bear]

About 25 years ago I asked my Sigung if iron palm was real. He said, yes but you don’t want to train that because of what it will do to your hand long term. I asked what would happen, he said “ Well no woman will want you to touch her with that hand, and furthermore, you won’t want to touch yourself
with it either.” Thusly, I have cultivated the silk palm rather than the iron palm and have no regrets.

Less effort just to break the hand and get it repaired.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Only have a solo training drill. Don't have any partner training drill. In the following 8 moves combo,

1. Use your right hand to push your opponent's leading arm to your right.
2. Use your left hand to take over and free your right hand.
3. Your right hand fingers strike across your opponent's eyes (or knife hand strike on the side of his head).

Your right hand makes 2 continuous clockwise circles. The 1st circle pulls down your opponent's guard (your left hand makes clockwise circle to take over). The 2nd circle fingers strike across his eyes. 1-2-3 is called "switching hands" in CMA.

Thanks! In that video it looks more like an eye rake am I seeing that right? You strike at the eye then rake down?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Less effort just to break the hand and get it repaired.

Huh? Break the hand? That’s not how it works, or what it does.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Less effort just to break the hand and get it repaired.

I’ve already broken both hands, believe me, they did not get tougher or become iron as a result.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Thanks! In that video it looks more like an eye rake am I seeing that right? You strike at the eye then rake down?

No, it’s from your left to your right, right hand horizontal wipe with tips of fingers.