How being vegetarian does more harm to the environment than eating meat

[CoryKS]

Long digestive tracts are found in most herbivores. The simplicity behind it is that it helps optimal nutrition.
While shorter digestive tracts such as found in carnivores are short to keep the distance to shedding it out as short as possible. So that it doesn't "rot" away. Plus also to minimize the surface of vowel tissue exposed to germs.

@CZ: I always wear cotton shoes. It was -7 yesterday night at 4 a.m., cold cold cold world.

Why am I suddenly reminded of that creepy dude with the molestache who sells colon cleansing products on late-night tv?

 

[Cryozombie]

@CZ: I always wear cotton shoes. It was -7 yesterday night at 4 a.m., cold cold cold world.

I used to work in fashion retail... 90% of our customer base didn't.

Like everything, you will find people on both sides. And my dead dead cow keeps me toasty warm and protects me from the pavement more than cotton...

Hehe.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Personally I don’t retain any guilt for being on top of the food chain.

As long as the animal is raised and killed reasonably humanely, I have no issue with eating it or wearing it.

 

[Blade96]

Personally I don’t retain any guilt for being on top of the food chain.

As long as the animal is raised and killed reasonably humanely, I have no issue with eating it or wearing it.

I might disagree that primates at at the top of the food chain.

actually many carnivores eat primates and they'd eat us - and they do - if they get a chance.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I might disagree that primates at at the top of the food chain.

actually many carnivores eat primates and they'd eat us - and they do - if they get a chance.

Physical strength doesn’t put us on top, our intelligence, our creativity and our ability to coordinate effectively as a group does.

Many carnivores have learned over the millennium to avoid concentrations of humans.

 

[Steve]

Personally I don’t retain any guilt for being on top of the food chain.

As long as the animal is raised and killed reasonably humanely, I have no issue with eating it or wearing it.

I actually agree with this sentiment. I also believe that most of the meat that is sold in grocery stores is neither raised nor slaughtered humanely. I also don't trust it to be raised cleanly, either. While I can only trust the regulatory bodies and my own common sense, I'll stick with food (whether meat or veggie) that's grown or raised locally, cage/cruelty free and without hormones and the antibiotics necessary to keep animals alive while being raised in their own filth.

I'm not a zealot for organic products in general with the exception of dairy. I prefer organic veggies and fruit but I'm not militant about it. It's not about morality for me as much as it's about basic nutrition and good health. I strongly believe that the food I eat is better for me if it's raised without cruelty , cages or chemicals.

 

[xJOHNx]

Thank you.
Does anyone have an unbiased source I can read up on this?

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-05/959372412.Ot.r.html

compare this:
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/AnneMarieThomasino.shtml

with this:
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/11/the-comparative-anatomy-of-eating.html
and with some textbook about animal anatomy/physiology.

Sorry that I can't provide you with more scientific work as most of the google searches gave opinions, not facts. If you really want scientific opinions, I suggest you buy a great book about it: http://veganfreak.com/ and especially this one: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570671036/qid=1049083934/sr=2-1/soystachecom-20 a great source of studies collected and published.

@ CZ: yeah, it's the only thing I hate about being vegan. Frozen toes.

 

[Tez3]

Why does it have to be one OR the other? What about both sides being right for people who practises either?
I'm happy eating meat, I'm happy that others don't, I don't see either being right or wrong frankly.
I don't feel the need to defend my meat eating nor do I feel vegans and veretarians are wrong. It's just what suits you.

It would be nice if there was a lot more kindness around, it may make for slightly boring arguments or maybe more civilised ones?

 

[xJOHNx]

This thread is as far as I know very polite?

And it has to be one OR the other, because the defenition of the words people use to define themselves don't allow any room for "stretching". You can't label yourself vegetarian if you eat 1 steak a week. Same as it would be silly to label yourself meat-eater when you eat a complete veg-diet.

 

[Tez3]

This thread is as far as I know very polite?

And it has to be one OR the other, because the defenition of the words people use to define themselves don't allow any room for "stretching". You can't label yourself vegetarian if you eat 1 steak a week. Same as it would be silly to label yourself meat-eater when you eat a complete veg-diet.

Why label yourself?

 

[xJOHNx]

Because saying: I'm vegan is alot easier than saying. I don't eat veal, poultry, porc and any other kind of meat (including the wild hunt meat), nor animal storch, no anything with animal derivates like: Casein, Ghee, Albumen, Cochineal/Carmine, Oleic acid, Rennin/Rennet, Calcium Stearate, Gelatin , Glycerides (mono/di/tri), Stearic acid, Lecithin, Pepsin, also no fish. Besides that, no eggs, no diary. Also no leather shoes for me, no satin, no wool and no silk.

See how much time it saves me?
Plus I'm pretty comfortable with labelling myself. Doesn't harm me.

I forgot: no cheese, no E-numbers coming from animal derivates. (http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fi45.htm)

 

[Tez3]

Because saying: I'm vegan is alot easier than saying. I don't eat veal, poultry, porc and any other kind of meat (including the wild hunt meat), nor animal storch, no anything with animal derivates like: Casein, Ghee, Albumen, Cochineal/Carmine, Oleic acid, Rennin/Rennet, Calcium Stearate, Gelatin , Glycerides (mono/di/tri), Stearic acid, Lecithin, Pepsin, also no fish. Besides that, no eggs, no diary. Also no leather shoes for me, no satin, no wool and no silk.

See how much time it saves me?
Plus I'm pretty comfortable with labelling myself. Doesn't harm me.

I forgot: no cheese, no E-numbers coming from animal derivates. (http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fi45.htm)

Well unless I'm feeding you which I'm not it doesn't matter to me what you eat. I don't even see a reason why you should tell me what you eat and what you don't!

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

Because saying: I'm vegan is alot easier than saying. I don't eat veal, poultry, porc and any other kind of meat (including the wild hunt meat), nor animal storch, no anything with animal derivates like: Casein, Ghee, Albumen, Cochineal/Carmine, Oleic acid, Rennin/Rennet, Calcium Stearate, Gelatin , Glycerides (mono/di/tri), Stearic acid, Lecithin, Pepsin, also no fish. Besides that, no eggs, no diary. Also no leather shoes for me, no satin, no wool and no silk.

See how much time it saves me?
Plus I'm pretty comfortable with labelling myself. Doesn't harm me.

I forgot: no cheese, no E-numbers coming from animal derivates. (http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fi45.htm)

I totally support you not eating all of that other soul-poisoning food...but no rennet? Come on, man, that's just being a food Nazi.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Believe me when I’m eating my filet mignon, covered in bleu cheese with roast garlic, I’m not thinking about anything else but how friggn good it tastes.

 

[xJOHNx]

Well unless I'm feeding you which I'm not it doesn't matter to me what you eat. I don't even see a reason why you should tell me what you eat and what you don't!

That's besides the point. You wanted a reason for labelling, I gave you one.

@ Jenny: than I'm a foodnazi... Another label :uhyeah:

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

That's besides the point. You wanted a reason for labelling, I gave you one.

@ Jenny: than I'm a foodnazi... Another label :uhyeah:

I hope you know I was joking, sugar pie. People are allowed to eat whatever they want to eat, and avoid whatever they want to avoid. I don't judge. It's actually nice to see people who have principles and stand by them, at some sacrifice to themselves. I think that is to be admired, rather than belittled. I tried to cut out meat once, from a desire to avoid contributing to inhumane food production practices, but I was too weak willed and quickly gave in to my desires.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, I'm not going to address the personal preference of vegetarians vs ominivores, because truthfully I don't care what you eat, as long as you don't preach to me about what I should eat.

And I'm not even going to address the environmental cost of pesticides, which is kind of obvious.

However, it takes about 4500 lbs of vegetable food to bring a steer to market size, and it only gives you about 450 lbs of meat (only a small portion of which is steak). Not to mention waste and CO2. So you could feed a lot more humans from that vegetable food than from that steer.

 

[Blade96]

Well, I'm not going to address the personal preference of vegetarians vs ominivores, because truthfully I don't care what you eat, as long as you don't preach to me about what I should eat.

Thats how i think. btw i label myself - im an omnivore. But i only like chicken and turkey. beef and steak tastes like cardboard to my taste buds.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

And I'm not even going to address the environmental cost of pesticides, which is kind of obvious.

However, it takes about 4500 lbs of vegetable food to bring a steer to market size, and it only gives you about 450 lbs of meat (only a small portion of which is steak). Not to mention waste and CO2. So you could feed a lot more humans from that vegetable food than from that steer.

I think that the real problem is the production of "cheap" meat, which tends to rely on all of the less savory aspects of mechanized agricultural practices, such as heavy pesticide use, inhumane husbandry and slaughter techniques, shipment over long distances from countries with fewer restictions regarding fair trade (for instance, Americans buy cheap beef from Mexico). If we all did as Steve suggests, and bought locally produced meat from reputable, small-scale farmers using humane practices and environmentally responsible farming techniques, that it would be a sound ethical choice for many of us. But Americans especially are used to cheap food. We get really pissed off when food prices rise, and we vote with our wallets. That box of chicken nuggets, or the burger from McDonalds, was not produced in a sustainable or ethical way, because the companies couldn't charge so little and make a profit.

 

[Tez3]

I think that the real problem is the production of "cheap" meat, which tends to rely on all of the less savory aspects of mechanized agricultural practices, such as heavy pesticide use, inhumane husbandry and slaughter techniques, shipment over long distances from countries with fewer restictions regarding fair trade (for instance, Americans buy cheap beef from Mexico). If we all did as Steve suggests, and bought locally produced meat from reputable, small-scale farmers using humane practices and environmentally responsible farming techniques, that it would be a sound ethical choice for many of us. But Americans especially are used to cheap food. We get really pissed off when food prices rise, and we vote with our wallets. That box of chicken nuggets, or the burger from McDonalds, was not produced in a sustainable or ethical way, because the companies couldn't charge so little and make a profit.

You may not like government controls but here McDonalds has to use British and Irish beef from reputable farms and it has to be 'proper' beef no reclaimed stuff. Likewise the pork etc. This isn't because McDonalds is any more 'caring' here, it's what customers demand and the government backs up with legislation.
I've never tasted American McDs but they aren't bad here though I wouldn't call it cheap food.