Hot Water Immersion and Post-Workout Recovery

[Fungus]

It appears to contradict the hot bath method of muscle recovery until you see it says ’…cold water immersion was AS GOOD OR BETTER [than other methods].

Also, research suggests that it is the inflammation itself that releases factors that promote healing recovery and muscle growth (even though it is also painful). Thus reducing the inflammation with cold water immersion might be counterproductive to muscle growth.

I don't remember the details but what I remember from also reading in some papers is that there is a difference between when the bodys inflammatory response "overreacts" and may cause damage (here quick early cooling may prevent some tissue damage), and the milder inflammatory reseponses that are part of adaptions ,which aren not bad per see. I trust it's my body doing what it does best.

I also recall reading that NSAID (maybe similar with cold water?) may help to reduce inflammation and pain in short term, but they may be counterproductive to your training, where you do not just want to "recover" from traing, you want your body and muscles to ADAPT so you get stronger; you do not want to supress this adaptive response.

Personally I’d go for what is most pleasant even if it’s slightly less effective than cold water immersion (which I find very unpleasant). After all, I’ve just caused myself great discomfort in the gym getting those sore muscles!

I regularly take HOT tub baths after training, because it feels good. I find it extremely relaxing/soothing. But only until the heat gets to my head, they I get out.

 

[Gyakuto]

I don't remember the details but what I remember from also reading in some papers is that there is a difference between when the bodys inflammatory response "overreacts" and may cause damage (here quick early cooling may prevent some tissue damage), and the milder inflammatory reseponses that are part of adaptions ,which aren not bad per see. I trust it's my body doing what it does best.

I think you’re absolutely right. For example, Rheumatoid arthritis is an ‘overreaction‘ to joint injury and causes more damage to the joint and so anti-inflammatory drugs are the main weapon against it.

I also recall reading that NSAID (maybe similar with cold water?) may help to reduce inflammation and pain in short term, but they may be counterproductive to your training, where you do not just want to "recover" from traing, you want your body and muscles to ADAPT so you get stronger; you do not want to supress this adaptive response.

Yes, because of this I avoid NSAID after training and use paracetamol/cocodamol instead. They don’t seem to work as well as NSAID, though.

I regularly take HOT tub baths after training, because it feels good. I find it extremely relaxing/soothing. But only until the heat gets to my head, they I get out.

I know what you mean. When one gets too hot (about 20minutes for me) then I have to get out. I used to love the sauna in my old gym too. My main issue is getting bored in a bath…it’s tedious so audiobooks really help.

 

[Fungus]

Yes, because of this I avoid NSAID after training and use paracetamol/cocodamol instead. They don’t seem to work as well as NSAID, though.

Due to some chronic back issues I sometimes take NSAID+paracetamol 2-3 hours before training (I time the pharmacological kinetics with the actuall training for best effect)+

Peak muscle ache appears around 24 hours after and then for me at least, my body tends to produce endorphins and natural painkillers + after a fighting where my arms and legs have gotten some good bruises I feel no backpain for the next 2-3 days. Though I think the main effect is diversion (pain center seems to focus on where it hurts the most) So I feel the best 1-3 days after a tought high contact fighting class. After than, I need to go get refill

I know what you mean. When one gets too hot (about 20minutes for me) then I have to get out. I used to love the sauna in my old gym too. My main issue is getting bored in a bath…it’s tedious so audiobooks really help.

I don't like sauna because it heats my head, then i can't think properly and that annoys me. I am not bored in bath, for me it's like a natural contemplation session.

 

[Gyakuto]

Due to some chronic back issues I sometimes take NSAID+paracetamol 2-3 hours before training (I time the pharmacological kinetics with the actuall training for best effect)+

Did you know that paracetamol is associated with taking riskier behaviour?

Effects of acetaminophen on risk taking - PubMed

Acetaminophen, an analgesic and antipyretic available over-the-counter and used in over 600 medicines, is one of the most consumed drugs in the USA. Recent research has suggested that acetaminophen's effects extend to the blunting of negative as well as positive affect. Because affect is a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It’s the only painkiller available, free of charge, in casinos

Peak muscle ache appears around 24 hours after and then for me at least,

Within a few hours for me. In 24hrs I’m feeling much better.

my body tends to produce endorphins and natural painkillers + after a fighting where my arms and legs have gotten some good bruises I feel no backpain for the next 2-3 days.

Did you know that we tend to ache/feel sore more in the mornings because endorphin levels drop markedly while we sleep? They can be boosted on awakening by punching yourself in the face several times

Though I think the main effect is diversion (pain center seems to focus on where it hurts the most)

When being taught how to deal with a patient’s post-operative pain, the order was of therapy was 1) place them in a comfortable position 2) Distract them in some way- books, TV, strippers (the latter is unavailable onthe NHS), and finally 3) analgesia.

If I keep myself busy after training I tend to feel much better (“….and that’s why I was in ‘Badda Bing’ strip joint, darling…it was for my pain”)

I don't like sauna because it heats my head, then i can't think properly and that annoys me.

Take a bucket of ice into the sauna and stick your head in it.

I am not bored in bath, for me it's like a natural contemplation session.

I end up touching myself…

 

[Fungus]

Did you know that paracetamol is associated with taking riskier behaviour?

Effects of acetaminophen on risk taking - PubMed

Acetaminophen, an analgesic and antipyretic available over-the-counter and used in over 600 medicines, is one of the most consumed drugs in the USA. Recent research has suggested that acetaminophen's effects extend to the blunting of negative as well as positive affect. Because affect is a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Actuall I hadn't seen this before, thanks for the link, interesting!

However I don't feel worried, I'm generally is a low risk taker, preferring to play safe because I like low variability in trends, so even if I'd take slightly more risks, i would be well tuned.

"These results indicate that acetaminophen can increase risk taking, which may be due to reductions in risk perceptions, particularly those that are highly affect laden."
-- Effects of acetaminophen on risk taking - PubMed

This is the opposite of me.

 

[Gyakuto]

However I don't feel worried, I'm generally is a low risk taker, preferring to play safe because I like low variability in trends,

That made me laugh out loud! It’s such a scientisty thing to say!

"These results indicate that acetaminophen can increase risk taking, which may be due to reductions in risk perceptions, particularly those that are highly affect laden."
-- Effects of acetaminophen on risk taking - PubMed

This is the opposite of me.

You engage in full contact martial arts fighting! That is risky in most people’s eyes. You must’ve been taking paracetamol!

 

[Fungus]

That made me laugh out loud! It’s such a scientisty thing to say!

Hmm... if something drives me crazy it's when people don't understand the concept of confidence in rational decision making, or insist on simplifying things too much.

"Look we have increased the sales by 30% as compared to last year, what a good trend, now lets keep up the good work!"

or somethimes (about every other random year)

"Look we dropes the sales by 30% as compared to last year, this is a bad trend, let this be a lesson and please improve your work next year"

Then when someone says that, NO we can not infer these trends, we will make irrational decisions if we think these are "trends", because just look at the variability 10 years back, the standard deviation is even larger than this. The variability is not from our work, it's from the nature of the market. There is still a trend, and the trend is what does NOT change year to year.

You often hear

"We should not make this so complicated"

The I just give up... What is wrong?

You engage in full contact martial arts fighting! That is risky in most people’s eyes. You must’ve been taking paracetamol!

I see it as "controlled experiment". I like experiments, even some some calculated risks, I will learn (win) regardless of outcome!

 

[Gyakuto]

Hmm... if something drives me crazy it's when people don't understand the concept of confidence in rational decision making, or insist on simplifying things too much.

"Look we have increased the sales by 30% as compared to last year, what a good trend, now lets keep up the good work!"

or somethimes (about every other random year)

"Look we dropes the sales by 30% as compared to last year, this is a bad trend, let this be a lesson and please improve your work next year"

Then when someone says that, NO we can not infer these trends, we will make irrational decisions if we think these are "trends", because just look at the variability 10 years back, the standard deviation is even larger than this. The variability is not from our work, it's from the nature of the market. There is still a trend, and the trend is what does NOT change year to year.

You often hear

"We should not make this so complicated"

The I just give up... What is wrong?

Statistical analysis is not well understood or indeed intuitive to untrained muggles.

I saw a great programme once where the wonderful scientist, Professor Susan Blackmore, went around the streets of a city with six dice and asked the public what they thought the chances of her rolling, say six sixes was compared to just a random set of numbers. They all said the random numbers were more likely to appear than six sixes. Of course that’s incorrect and the probability is just the same although that’s not intuitive. We often cannot trust our gut feelings/intuition. There are many similarly counterintuitive scenarios. (I was pleasantly surprised when Sue Blackmore turned up to a meditation retreat I attend, once a month and she’s delightful!).

I see it as "controlled experiment". I like experiments, even some some calculated risks, I will learn (win) regardless of outcome!

Ever the optimist, Fungus

 

[HighKick]

Statistical analysis is not well understood or indeed intuitive to untrained muggles.

I saw a great programme once where the wonderful scientist, Professor Susan Blackmore, went around the streets of a city with six dice and asked the public what they thought the chances of her rolling, say six sixes was compared to just a random set of numbers. They all said the random numbers were more likely to appear than six sixes. Of course that’s incorrect and the probability is just the same although that’s not intuitive. We often cannot trust our gut feelings/intuition. There are many similarly counterintuitive scenarios. (I was pleasantly surprised when Sue Blackmore turned up to a meditation retreat I attend, once a month and she’s delightful!).

Ever the optimist, Fungus

I would have to say the dice scenario all comes down the how the question was worded.
If it said the chances of rolling all sixes versus ANY other random number, the chances are, of course, the same.
If it said 'A' random number, then it takes on a completely different meaning.

 

[Gyakuto]

I would have to say the dice scenario all comes down the how the question was worded.
If it said the chances of rolling all sixes versus ANY other random number, the chances are, of course, the same.
If it said 'A' random number, then it takes on a completely different meaning.

I feel fairly certain that Prof Blackmore got her wording absolutely correct…fairly certain. But I’ll ask her on your behalf, if you like.

 

[Hyoho]

My orthopedic surgeon that used to work at Mayo Clinic would only cool a joint after injury. After that is was a daily hot pack treatment. Use to love the onsen with my Shihan after practice. Lots of valuable conversation exchanged as well.

 

[Gyakuto]

This is interesting and the suggestion is that cold therapy is not a good idea for treating injuries.

Icing an injury may do more harm than good

Experts have tips on properly administering thermal therapies after an injury, surgery, or in simple recovery from exercise.

www.futurity.org

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If you get the bubbles positioned just right and yell, “Unleash the kraken!”, you can give yourself quite a scare!

Did you know, in most people one testicle is larger than the other? But in the case of Chuck Norris, each testicle is larger than the other.

 

[Gyakuto]

Did you know, in most people one testicle is larger than the other? But in the case of Chuck Norris, each testicle is larger than the other.

 

[Gyakuto]

Another study showing that hot water therapy aids post-workout recovery and temporarily increases strength whereas cold water immersion might help with post injury inflammation.

New Study Debunks Cold Plunge, Finds Hot Water Boosts Muscle Repair - GreekReporter.com

New research shows hot water works better than cold for recreational athletes, improving performance and aiding muscle repair.

greekreporter.com

Primary source Local Heat Therapy to Accelerate Recovery After Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage - PMC