Honor the flag

[Tgace]

This man had strong convictions:

 

[Steve]

Good for him. Usually, disrespect of the flag is out of ignorance, by people who think they're being patriotic. This seemed like an intentional slight.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Makalakumu]

Good for him. Usually, disrespect of the flag is out of ignorance, by people who think they're being patriotic. This seemed like an intentional slight.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Ultimately, it's just a peice of cloth with some symbols on it. Like any other religious symbol, it's power lies in the irrational beleif that it means anything at all.

 

[Tgace]

Ultimately, it's just a peice of cloth with some symbols on it. Like any other religious symbol, it's power lies in the irrational beleif that it means anything at all.

That's just sad....

Do you really not know the difference between what "means" and "represents" is?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Makalakumu]

That's just sad....

Do you really not know the difference between what "means" and "represents" is?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Those two things are related. A symbol represents something because of a belief that it actually represents something. It's fundamentally irrational because the symbol has no other extrinsic power. It's just a peice of cloth. There is no physics that describes how that item is infused with anything.

So, I tend to look at these things a little differently because of that. I'm not going to take them too seriously, but I also understand that others do. So you won't find me burning flags or destroying other religious symbols.

The only reason I point out it's true nature is to give a rational perspective rather than an emotional one.

 

[crushing]

While I would be upset seeing the flags flown as they were and certainly would not patronize a business that had flown them in such a configuration, I am much much more concerned and saddened that a vandal and thief imposing his will on the free expression of others is getting a lot of positive feedback from people that apparently think that the symbols of freedom are more important than actual freedom.

 

[Tgace]

I have a mixed opinion over the whole thing.

The flying of the Mexican Flag over the American flag represents in many peoples minds that the immigration/amnesty issue is really about a subversive/or not so subversive attempt to reclaim the southwest states for Mexico. That these people consider themselves Mexican first...not Americans. It's an in your face disrespecting of my country.

While the display of the flag in this case may be in violation of federal regulation, the flag code (as I understand it) doesn't come with any arrestable penalty. Theft of property does.

To the mans "credit" he took a stand. Did it in broad daylight and gave his name. He knew he was making a personal statement.

In the end...if I were a cop there I would probably be in a position where I would feel some "good for you man" feelings towards the guy but I would arrest him nonetheless.

 

[ballen0351]

Ultimately, it's just a peice of cloth with some symbols on it. Like any other religious symbol, it's power lies in the irrational beleif that it means anything at all.

Wow. Lot of folks died because of that irrational belief.

 

[Tgace]

While it may be melodramatic and over simplified...I always thought that this little movie clip cut to the heart of what believing in something is all about.

 

[Steve]

Flag etiquette is, for me, exactly that. As others have said, the American flag represents many things that I believe are valuable and important. I don't like to see it disrespected. I'm sure I wouldn't have cut it down like this gentleman did, but like Tgace and others, I don't blame the guy for doing it and my first reaction was, "Good for you."

As I said earlier, though, most breaches of flag etiquette I see are unintentional. For example, the flag shouldn't be out at night unless you have a light dedicated to illuminating it. It should be destroyed if it shows wear, so those worn out flags people put on their cars are a no-no. The preferred manner if disposal is to burn it, although any "dignified" manner is acceptable.

It shouldn't be made into clothes or worn as a patch (unless as a part of a military uniform), so the flag shirts and flag pattern martial arts uniforms are a no-no. Also, specifically prohibited are flag patches on athletic uniforms, so the flag patch on many TKD or Karate uniforms is straight out.

There are also many unwritten "rules" for displaying the flag. For example, in official government portraits, the flag should always be over the executive's right shoulder (on the left side of the portrait). Also, generally, the stripes should lead into the portrait, not out, although this one is often ignored.

 

[Balrog]

Good for him!

 

[oftheherd1]

Ultimately, it's just a peice of cloth with some symbols on it. Like any other religious symbol, it's power lies in the irrational beleif that it means anything at all.

Those two things are related. A symbol represents something because of a belief that it actually represents something. It's fundamentally irrational because the symbol has no other extrinsic power. It's just a peice of cloth. There is no physics that describes how that item is infused with anything.

So, I tend to look at these things a little differently because of that. I'm not going to take them too seriously, but I also understand that others do. So you won't find me burning flags or destroying other religious symbols.

The only reason I point out it's true nature is to give a rational perspective rather than an emotional one.

Other religious symbol? Are you intentionally trying to pick a fight or do you just really not understand? Sorry if I don't understand you position correctly, but it seems it must be one or the other.

 

[Sukerkin]

While it may be melodramatic and over simplified...I always thought that this little movie clip cut to the heart of what believing in something is all about.

And if enough of us believe something that is a virtue to be true for long enough then just maybe it becomes true. Of course, the same thing applies to lies which rather undermines my point :lol:. But I'll still stand by the necessity for us to believe in honour, discipline, truthfulness and compassion regardless.

 

[Makalakumu]

While I would be upset seeing the flags flown as they were and certainly would not patronize a business that had flown them in such a configuration, I am much much more concerned and saddened that a vandal and thief imposing his will on the free expression of others is getting a lot of positive feedback from people that apparently think that the symbols of freedom are more important than actual freedom.

Freedom is more than a flag. Liberty is something rationally exists. Freedom describes a state of behavior where humans can operate free free from coercion. The flag is a symbol used by a group of humans to represent a belief that they have the right to initiate force within a given geographic area. This belief runs counter to what liberty actually is. So, even the irrational belief that the symbol means something more than something a group of humans wave around is contradictory.

Imagine this all from an alien perspective. ET would look at this simian organism and be very confused by what is happening. Some dude takes down a piece of cloth and runs it back up. Now the humans are making noises with their mouths and gesturing. Now some human with a blue costume arrives on the scene and the other humans defer to that one. More gesturing. The blue costumed human may perform several actions in this hypothetical scenario. He could walk away. He might take out a piece of paper and write on it and hand it to another agitated human. He might draw a projectile launcher and capture the other human.

It's all madness.

 

[Makalakumu]

And if enough of us believe something that is a virtue to be true for long enough then just maybe it becomes true. Of course, the same thing applies to lies which rather undermines my point :lol:. But I'll still stand by the necessity for us to believe in honour, discipline, truthfulness and compassion regardless.

What if the group of people that waves that symbol displays none of those behaviors?

 

[Makalakumu]

Wow. Lot of folks died because of that irrational belief.

Truth. Lots of humans died for other irrational symbols as well. The cross, the sickle and hammer, various stars, etc. see the pattern?

 

[Sukerkin]

What if the group of people that waves that symbol displays none of those behaviors?

I'm talking about the virtues, Maka, rather than nationalistic or religious symbols. I hope that was clear from what I wrote i.e. the virtues are valuable and can become real if enough of us hold true to them.

 

[Makalakumu]

Other religious symbol? Are you intentionally trying to pick a fight or do you just really not understand? Sorry if I don't understand you position correctly, but it seems it must be one or the other.

Not trying to pick a fight. I'm injecting a different perspective however. I am socially astute enough to understand that these arguments are not popular. If these arguments are accepted, something that is really emotionally important for a group of humans does not exist in the way that they believed. The pieces of wood, the pieces of cloth and the gesturing simply become what they really are and lose their magic.

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm talking about the virtues, Maka, rather than nationalistic or religious symbols. I hope that was clear from what I wrote i.e. the virtues are valuable and can become real of enough of us hold true to them.

Do you think that the groups of humans who wave the various symbols noted above display those virtues? Can humans display those virtues independent from symbolic displays?

Do you see displays of those virtues more commonly displayed in the presence of said symbols?

 

[Sukerkin]

Why ask me these questions when I have no interest in answering them as that is not the subject I was passing comment on? I'll answer your second question with a "Yes" and leave it at that.