Hogu Training and Bad Habits

[Archtkd]

I'm not a fan of partner hogu drills that involve unblocked tit for tat kicking, but I see many instructors -- many at the elite level and much more experienced than I -- using them all the time. The drills appear to be useful for helping exponents to develop timing, distance gauging, accuracy and counter attack, but I think it also encourages them to develop terrible habits.

Specifically, I believe unblocked tit for tat hogu drills conditions exponents to drop their hands all the time, and accept and get used to being kicked. Part of my aversion for that kind of hogu training is because I used to box. I can't imagine a scenario in which training partners in boxing perform drills that involve back and forth acceptance (no block or evasion) of being hit (even lightly) in the body.

The other question that can apply here is why don't many instructors encourage blocking in hogu drills? What are your thoughts.

 

[Manny]

I'm not a fan of partner hogu drills that involve unblocked tit for tat kicking, but I see many instructors -- many at the elite level and much more experienced than I -- using them all the time. The drills appear to be useful for helping exponents to develop timing, distance gauging, accuracy and counter attack, but I think it also encourages them to develop terrible habits.

Specifically, I believe unblocked tit for tat hogu drills conditions exponents to drop their hands all the time, and accept and get used to being kicked. Part of my aversion for that kind of hogu training is because I used to box. I can't imagine a scenario in which training partners in boxing perform drills that involve back and forth acceptance (no block or evasion) of being hit (even lightly) in the body.

The other question that can apply here is why don't many instructor encourage blocking in hogu drills? What are your thoughts.

You have some good points here. I don't know why elite fighters train that way but you adressed good points. Remember competing in tournaments is just a tag game, the winner is the one who makes more points but...... sometimes the winner is the one who knock out the other competitor with a head kick or with a strong back kick.

Sparring for self defense pourposes is another animal, in it one must kick and puch hard trying not to be kicked,punched,etc so the fighter must have his/her arms up and cover her/his body and neck/head area fos safety sake

I think is just because the elite fighters must be loose on their feet, with exelent timing and speed that they chase the point in such a way their arms must be down to not waste time,space and quickness.

Manny

 

[terryl965]

Because for the most part blocking is not a big fan of Olympic TKD, instead they evade and counter. The drills are use to get students to learn distance and timing, both from an offensive point as well as a defensive point. If you are able to move without getting hit and counter the attacker you can over come alot inside the ring. The sport you must remember is just that a sport and it is in no way suppose to be use as a self defense encounter. I agree keeping the hands up is more productive in the street but in a ring most would get there forearm broke.

 

[ATC]

Because for the most part blocking is not a big fan of Olympic TKD, instead they evade and counter. The drills are use to get students to learn distance and timing, both from an offensive point as well as a defensive point. If you are able to move without getting hit and counter the attacker you can over come alot inside the ring. The sport you must remember is just that a sport and it is in no way suppose to be use as a self defense encounter. I agree keeping the hands up is more productive in the street but in a ring most would get there forearm broke.

Yep, what he said.

When competing to execute a true block and counter will be way to slow and you will never counter anything and may find yourself hit multiple times after only blocking once. You must learn to counter strike as you are being attacked to be effective in the ring. Even head shot must be immediately countered.

The tit for tat hogu drills remove the guard reflex that everyone has. Most beginners will instinctively x or cross block when being kicked. Well this blocks nothing really and leaves you in a position where you cannot counter quickly or effectively. Doing tit for tat hogu drills will remove that x/cross block reflex and build a counter reflex instead.

 

[Archtkd]

Because for the most part blocking is not a big fan of Olympic TKD, instead they evade and counter. The drills are use to get students to learn distance and timing, both from an offensive point as well as a defensive point. If you are able to move without getting hit and counter the attacker you can over come alot inside the ring. The sport you must remember is just that a sport and it is in no way suppose to be use as a self defense encounter. I agree keeping the hands up is more productive in the street but in a ring most would get there forearm broke.

Sir, very true. But the problem is that in many of the hogu drills I see exponents hiting each other in running line exchanges, with no apparent effort to seriously avoid the kicks. It looks like a "kick my hogu, so that I can kick yours" exercise. Also, I think blocking is going to play a bigger role in the EBP era. Iran is proving that point. The Iranians block very well and some Koreans lost to them for that very reason in the recently concluded Asian Games.

 

[Archtkd]

Yep, what he said.

ntered.

The tit for tat hogu drills remove the guard reflex that everyone has. Most beginners will instinctively x or cross block when being kicked. Well this blocks nothing really and leaves you in a position where you cannot counter quickly or effectively. Doing tit for tat hogu drills will remove that x/cross block reflex and build a counter reflex instead.

Umm.. This is instructive. Would you suggest some good hogu drills to help exponents develop blocks that roll with the footwork and kicks -- meaning the block is not a static guard. I have a few home grown drills that work with some of my students in tournaments, but of course this is nowhere near the level of competition in your circles.

 

[ATC]

Umm.. This is instructive. Would you suggest some good hogu drills to help exponents develop blocks that roll with the footwork and kicks -- meaning the block is not a static guard. I have a few home grown drills that work with some of my students in tournaments, but of course this is nowhere near the level of competition in your circles.

The one thing to remember is that when blocking you should be starting your couter technique almost at the same time as the block is being executed. One of the most basic drills that we do is called the cover punch drill. I will see if I can detail it for you below. It can be done from front side cover to back side cover it does not matter.

Imagine being in a fighting stance and that someone is kicking to your back side. You simply drop your front side arm at the same time you are sliding into your opponet and punching at the solo-plexus at the same time. As the punch is extending you should be delivering a back leg round kick to the mid-section or hogu of the opponent as well.

If the kick from the opponent is being delivered to your front side you simply switch feet while at the same time guarding with the front side hand that you just switched to while using the back side hand to punch. Then continue with the same back leg round kick to the hogu as the punch is returning.

You can use this as a drill by having student partner up and then have one be the attacker while other performs the techniques described above.

Pretty simple drill but really effective. Simple cover punch can stop many attacks and put you back on the offensive if being overwhelmed.

Later you can practice going to the head with the counter kick instead of the hogu as well.

 

[ATC]

Also the best time to hit someone is when they are open. The time that someone is open is, when they are attacking. So you should be reading your opponent and or making them attack when you want to effectively counter. If you can do this then even if they attempt to strike first, you still can counter kick them before they kick you. Hogu drills also help you hone your reading and reflex for this.

If you watch my son clip below, In my signature, you will see that most of his scores are from counter kicks but he really hits firsts as he can intercept most others attacks and actually hit them before they hit him, even though he kick after them.

We do a ton of hogu drills.

 

[Archtkd]

Imagine being in a fighting stance and that someone is kicking to your back side. You simply drop your front side arm at the same time you are sliding into your opponet and punching at the solo-plexus at the same time. As the punch is extending you should be delivering a back leg round kick to the mid-section or hogu of the opponent as well.

If the kick from the opponent is being delivered to your front side you simply switch feet while at the same time guarding with the front side hand that you just switched to while using the back side hand to punch. Then continue with the same back leg round kick to the hogu as the punch is returning.

You can use this as a drill by having student partner up and then have one be the attacker while other performs the techniques described above.

Pretty simple drill but really effective. Simple cover punch can stop many attacks and put you back on the offensive if being overwhelmed.

Thanks much. I teach drill #2 quite a bit, but I was not familiar with #1.