Hofstra student shot during hostage stand off

[jks9199]

This may be an interesting and educational incident to discuss.

In brief, based on the article, officers from Nassau County PD responded to a home invasion. A masked intruder, later identified as Dalton Smith, was holding Andrea Rebello in a headlock, with a gun to her head and threatening to shoot her. Smith eventually turns the gun towards the police, who fire on him. The police fire several shots, and one of them hits her in the head, killing her. There's nothing that I see as suggestive of any cover-up attempt by the police; among other things, the commissioner went in person to notify the girl's parents. Full article here

OK -- my basic opinion here is that everything I've seen suggests that the officer was put in a incredibly challenging situation, and made the best choice he felt he could. There are a lot of things I don't know (cover, concealment, whether it was the first or repetitive things for Smith to point the gun at the cop... and more), and I can't help but wonder, as I sit here in my living room, about the effects of adrenal stress on fine motor control, and whether I would have taken the shot. But, in the end, I think the officer made the best call he could, and I hope he's getting both the public support of his agency and community, and private support as well, because the simple truth is he was the man on the spot, and made the best call he could.

 

[arnisador]

There are impossible situations out there that wouldn't be soluble even if you did have all the time in the world to think about them. This may turn out to be one. I'll be interested to see what the investigation turns up.

 

[Drasken]

The article I read (didn't read this link as I read it previously elsewhere) said that several shots hit the guy and one hit her. Now I don't know which shot hit her, I would hope it was one of the first. Otherwise I would question this officer putting several more shots into the equation.

The simple fact is that the officer was in a horrible situation. And he did what he could. If he had been killed, the guy holding the girl hostage would likely have killed her and the other two since police were involved. I feel bad for the girl's family and friends. I also feel bad for this cop, who has to deal with shooting an innocent girl in the line of duty. Though obviously I highly doubt it was his intention.

My thoughts are with all the victims of this horrible situation. Please if you hear see any follow up pieces on this do post them. I am interested and would hate to miss the news report on it.

 

[jks9199]

There's probably no way to tell which round in the sequence was the one that hit the girl. For some ideas about the dynamics of a shooting, and how you can get some really suspicious looking stuff, see some of the Demos by the Force Science Institute. It's also not at all uncommon, despite all the training about assessing each shot, for police officers to fire several rounds during an encounter -- and even only remember one or two. Auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, time distortion, and other effects of adrenal stress can blur the officer's perceptions that badly...

 

[K-man]

Sad for the officer but he shouldn't have been in the situation.

Police responding to a known hostage situation are required to call for backup, a Nassau law-enforcement source said yesterday.


“And under no circumstances should they go through that front door,” the source said.


But — despite radio transmissions mentioning hostages — it wasn’t clear if Budimlic and his partner heard the broadcast, another source said.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/hofstra_cop_blames_self_tpyllJn9gGPDezfSXAiiOP

I have a mate who has investigated police using firearms and it is common for multiple shots to be way off target when the person is under that sort of stress. The innocent girl is dead because an officer didn't follow procedure.

 

[MJS]

I'm sure there're things that we still don't know, however, upon first read, it would seem that once they realized that there was a hostage, that a perimeter would be set up around the home, a negotiator would be called, as well as a SWAT team. Now, perhaps this was done, but as I said, upon reading this, it seems to be that it was not, unless the article just doesnt mention it.

I understand that its easy to armchair QB this, and in situations like this, split second decisions can happen, but doing what they did, just doesnt seem like the right option, at that moment.

 

[Tgace]

Earlier Saturday, police announced that Smith, 30, had been wanted on a parole violation related to a first-degree robbery conviction and had an arrest history dating back nearly 15 years.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/1...lled-by-police-authorities-say/#ixzz2Tq5ovna0

Dude shouldn't have been on the street.

http://longisland.news12.com/news/c...had-lengthy-rap-sheet-1.5294667?firstfree=yes


At some point the Parole board needs to face consequences for the the people they put back on our streets.

 

[Drasken]

Dude shouldn't have been on the street.

http://longisland.news12.com/news/c...had-lengthy-rap-sheet-1.5294667?firstfree=yes


At some point the Parole board needs to face consequences for the the people they put back on our streets.

See that is once again a common thing. And a good point. It's too bad these students didn't have guns. And it's too bad this guy wasn't behind bars where he should have been in the first place.

 

[arnisador]

At some point the Parole board needs to face consequences for the the people they put back on our streets.

...and the taxpayers have to face consequences for the the people they put back on our streets by not wanting to fund jails--like those ordered released in Calif. It's more than just one thing.

 

[Manseau]

I'm sure there're things that we still don't know, however, upon first read, it would seem that once they realized that there was a hostage, that a perimeter would be set up around the home, a negotiator would be called, as well as a SWAT team. Now, perhaps this was done, but as I said, upon reading this, it seems to be that it was not, unless the article just doesnt mention it.

I understand that its easy to armchair QB this, and in situations like this, split second decisions can happen, but doing what they did, just doesnt seem like the right option, at that moment.

While we look at police as first responders we must also realize that their presence is the result of what someone believes to be a last resort. These situations are never good, but then good hostage situation outcomes don't sell news papers. What ever should have happened, I'm sure goes through the head of that poor cop who fired the fatal round every night when he goes to bed and probably every morning when he looks at himself in the mirror. I also know he has had to re-live it for his superiors and will likely recount it to a grand jury. Whether he loses his job or not, he will likely be sued by the young woman's family. If he's a decent human being, like I think most of law enforcement folks are, he will carry the scars from this incident in his mind and heart for the rest of his life. Like Joe Friday use to say, "just the facts mam"; for the papers, its "it has been reported" + hook = story.

 

[MJS]

While we look at police as first responders we must also realize that their presence is the result of what someone believes to be a last resort. These situations are never good, but then good hostage situation outcomes don't sell news papers. What ever should have happened, I'm sure goes through the head of that poor cop who fired the fatal round every night when he goes to bed and probably every morning when he looks at himself in the mirror. I also know he has had to re-live it for his superiors and will likely recount it to a grand jury. Whether he loses his job or not, he will likely be sued by the young woman's family. If he's a decent human being, like I think most of law enforcement folks are, he will carry the scars from this incident in his mind and heart for the rest of his life. Like Joe Friday use to say, "just the facts mam"; for the papers, its "it has been reported" + hook = story.

Yes, I can agree with this. Interestingly enough, I read an article about a cop who was responding to a call. I believe it was a suspicious person. He was pointed to a location where the guy went, and ended up finding him. As he was talking to the guy, he started reaching under his shirt. The cop grabbed the guys arm, only to see that he had a gun. Long story short, no shots were fired, he took the guy down, and arrested him. This was a small article. Now, imagine the headlines if the cop actually shot the guy! Front page news!

I don't know the policies and procedures of every PD in the world. However, from what I've seen of situations in cities/towns around where I live, and where I work, any time there is a situation akin to this, specific steps are taken. Hell, just today, a country club in a town not far from me, was broken into. The suspects were both still inside. Cops from that town, as well as neighboring towns, were called in, surrounded the building, and eventually, both suspects were arrested. We didn't see them running in with guns blazing.

Hey, none of us were there when this cop was dealing with the situation topic, so all we can go on is what the media presents, and that should be taken with a grain of salt. I just hope, for his sake, that he followed policy of the PD.

 

[ballen0351]

This is an interesting story. Question for my law enforcement friends do you get regular calls for hostage situations or isn't just us. I bet at least once a week someone calls in saying either they or someone they know is being held hostage. It usually ends up being guy catches girlfriend at another mans house so he calls and says my GF is inside being glad against her will. Or father finds daughter at some guy he disapproved of house and says she's being held hostage.

 

[MJS]

This is an interesting story. Question for my law enforcement friends do you get regular calls for hostage situations or isn't just us. I bet at least once a week someone calls in saying either they or someone they know is being held hostage. It usually ends up being guy catches girlfriend at another mans house so he calls and says my GF is inside being glad against her will. Or father finds daughter at some guy he disapproved of house and says she's being held hostage.

We get them all the time....from the local mental hospital...lol. They're being held against their will, they're being forced to take meds....you name it...lol.

Other than that place though, in the 11yrs that I've been where I am, I've yet to take a hostage call. Now, calls with 1 person in the residence, who's making threats of killing themselves...yes, I've taken those.