Hmmm............

[Hand Sword]

Are you serious? How many repititions does it take over how many years to accomplish the feats? Where does a skill come from? The answer to both questions is one and the same--Practice.

As for your analogy, well there is some truth and some fiction. Many are around that age or over and have done this to no ill affects. Then again the same stats, or worse come from practitioners who practice "the better" ways for many years too. So at worst, it's a wash! A dozen of one and 6 of the other. That's a whole separate thread topic

.

 

[Uchinanchu]

Short answer--Yes.

What he said.

 

[Uchinanchu]

I think that it is fair to say that the average dojo in the modern age, particularly in the states, does not do anything resembling the body toughening and conditioning that was done in years past.

Doesn't mean that it can't be done, but the dojo is no longer the primary place of doing so unless you find a hardcore school.

The modern dojo is more fitness/hobbyist oriented. Hobbyists generally don't strive for ribs of steel, karate knuckles, or iron shins. Point of fact, a lot of people just want to do something physical around healthy people and not have to go the gym and wear gym attire to do so.

Daniel

Years past?!...The dojo is no longer the primary place for such training? Maybe not in the states, but it is still quite alive and well here, and easily found still being done in dojo, and not necessarily dojo that would be considered 'hardcore'. But standards and focus will vary from culture to culture.

 

[Cirdan]

Yes repetition of technique but what does that have to do with the practice of toughening your knuckles and whatnot?

As for the statistics they are pretty worthless. However it does not take a genius to see that taking care of your body is a thing that pays off. No secret that if you for instance take too many hits to the head your brain will suffer.

 

[Hand Sword]

I don't want to debate this, and ruin the thread. So please, if you want to, start another thread. One quick answer to you though would be...to get the right area toughened, so to speak, that area has to get conditioned, which is making sure that area receives it. Better put, you have to throw it correctly every time to avoid injury (makiwara was the "truth board" as an example. Hit it wrong and you know instantly), and repeat the process countless times. So, again-SKill. How? Correct repititions many times.

As for hits to the head.. what does boxing have to do with this? Never mind. That's another thread too.

 

[Uchinanchu]

Yes repetition of technique but what does that have to do with the practice of toughening your knuckles and whatnot?

As for the statistics they are pretty worthless. However it does not take a genius to see that taking care of your body is a thing that pays off. No secret that if you for instance take too many hits to the head your brain will suffer.

Very true. It is also true that if one practices punching/striking/blocking without proper conditioning of the weapon, that when you actually hit/make contact for the first time against an agressor, you take the chance of self-injury.
By the way, makiwara training actually has very little to do with 'toughening the knuckles'. It is an over-all conditioning tool used to teach/condition the body (bone/sinew/muscles) alignment.

 

[Hand Sword]

I love it when people talk more gooder than me!

:asian:

 

[Cirdan]

Well getting the body used to handle the force from impact is another thing and can be done with pads wawemaster whatever. However the opening post seemed to be more about "fists of steel" and that is where I disagree. Someone who has not destroyed his sensitivity in the hand can in fact deliver a more devastating blow because he can at the moment of impact direct the force exactly where it needs to be. The "hardcore" conditioning you see in many places destroys the nerves you need for this. It is another philosophy I guess and one I disagree with.

 

[Hand Sword]

Well getting the body used to handle the force from impact is another thing and can be done with pads wawemaster whatever. However the opening post seemed to be more about "fists of steel" and that is where I disagree. Someone who has not destroyed his sensitivity in the hand can in fact deliver a more devastating blow because he can at the moment of impact direct the force exactly where it needs to be. The "hardcore" conditioning you see in many places destroys the nerves you need for this. It is another philosophy I guess and one I disagree with.

Could you elaborate a little on this? Once it lands, it lands. The force goes through. How is it directed after you've already landed? Also, if you hurt yourself at impact you instinctively pull back your force. Not being used to impact (conditioning) leads to a higher possibility of injury in a real fight. It is conditioning that will allow a more destructive hit. However, I am curious about your point. Please elaborate. :asian:

 

[Cirdan]

Actually it does not land when it lands. You can redirect, push trough or pull to create vibration, adjust the force since maximum is not always ideal etc. You have a split second when you can feel your opponent`s "energy" and apply your strike to it for the best effect.

You say it is conditioning that alows for a harder hit. Don`t you think technique has a part in it at all?

And I am not saying you should not train so you get used to hitting something, if you read my last post you`d see that.

 

[jarrod]

i briefly started knuckle conditioning a couple months ago then quit when i realized i hadn't puched anyone bare-fisted in about 15 years.

so i look at it this way; maybe i'll have to punch someone again someday & maybe i'll hurt my hand because i didn't condition it. but i've seen lots of people who definately hurt their hands doing conditioning. so i work on timing, technique, strength, & perhaps most importantly, verbal judo

i just don't want to beat my knuckles bloody when i'm so damn nice no one wants to fight me anyway.

jf

 

[seasoned]

Is it love for love or love because of its effectiveness for your life?

Love of the art, born out of respect for the Okinawan people and their struggles, pertaining to my art of Okinawan GoJu. Love for the art, in it’s effectiveness to transform our thought processes, to except things in life, as they are. At first we take MA, to learn how to fight and defend, but as that MA turns into the art aspect, over time, we learn to better blend with life on a daily basis. We hopefully begin to understand that as we become proficient with our art, the first reason we began our art, takes second place, and is replaced with calmness and understanding. This is the making of an artist.:asian:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think that it is fair to say that the average dojo in the modern age, particularly in the states, does not do anything resembling the body toughening and conditioning that was done in years past.

Doesn't mean that it can't be done, but the dojo is no longer the primary place of doing so unless you find a hardcore school.

The modern dojo is more fitness/hobbyist oriented. Hobbyists generally don't strive for ribs of steel, karate knuckles, or iron shins. Point of fact, a lot of people just want to do something physical around healthy people and not have to go the gym and wear gym attire to do so.

Daniel

Years past?!...The dojo is no longer the primary place for such training? Maybe not in the states, but it is still quite alive and well here, and easily found still being done in dojo, and not necessarily dojo that would be considered 'hardcore'. But standards and focus will vary from culture to culture.

Yes, in the states. I should have qualified that. I would not be surprised if the schools in Okinawa would all be considered hardcore schools here.

Daniel

 

[seasoned]

Yes, in the states. I should have qualified that. I would not be surprised if the schools in Okinawa would all be considered hardcore schools here.

Daniel

Yes, for many reasons. Mind set being one of them.

 

[Uchinanchu]

Yes, for many reasons. Mind set being one of them.

An interesting response... that might be taken a couple of different ways. Please elaborate.

 

[seasoned]

An interesting response... that might be taken a couple of different ways. Please elaborate.

Years past?!...The dojo is no longer the primary place for such training? Maybe not in the states, but it is still quite alive and well here, and easily found still being done in dojo, and not necessarily dojo that would be considered 'hardcore'. But standards and focus will vary from culture to culture.

With all do respect, I think you already answered your own question. :asian: