i wonder what the remaining branch davidians think about that. stop looking through a glass that encompasses only the last 20 years. turmoil in the middle east has been going on for more than a 1000 years.
History of Islamic Hostility and an Analysis of Current Threat Potential
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i wonder what the remaining branch davidians think about that. stop looking through a glass that encompasses only the last 20 years. turmoil in the middle east has been going on for more than a 1000 years.
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
the branch davidians didnt comitt any crimes and didnt attack anyone, they WERE attacked.
and i dont care what happened 1000 years ago
TODAY i dont have to worry about christians blowing me up, i DO have to worry about muslims blowing my **** up.
not all, not even most
but many
and i dont care what happened 1000 years ago
TODAY i dont have to worry about christians blowing me up, i DO have to worry about muslims blowing my **** up.
not all, not even most
but many
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Timothy McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic.
http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/violence_stats.pdf
But the most obvious example of radical christian violence in recent history is the violence against abortion clinics.
Arsons and Bombings:
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/arsons.asp
Murders and Shootings:
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/murders.asp
Do you believe that these weren't almost exclusively perpetrated by extremist Christians?
http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/violence_stats.pdf
But the most obvious example of radical christian violence in recent history is the violence against abortion clinics.
Arsons and Bombings:
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/arsons.asp
Murders and Shootings:
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/murders.asp
Do you believe that these weren't almost exclusively perpetrated by extremist Christians?
Abortion clinic bombers are lone actors without state support, material, spiritual or educational, and are condemned by followers of the main stream faith. I don't believe you can say the same thing about these two morons. I believe they had contact with that American nutjob in Afghanistan who encouraged the attack. Michael Medved, the radio host was talking about it because he lives there and a freind works at that processing station.
Also, Timothy McVeigh denied religion, said he was not a christian.
Twin fist is also right, the nuts at the davidian compound were doing there own thing when the feds rolled up.
***************I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY WERE RIGHT IN SHOOTING UP THE FEDS, OR THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT OF THE CHARGES THAT LED THE FEDS TO RAID THEIR COMPOUND, I AM SAYING THEY WERE NOT GOING AROUND ATTACKING OTHER PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION, UNLESS SOMEONE KNOWS THAT THEY ACTUALLY WERE AND CAN SHOW ME THE ARTICLES, IN WHICH CASE I WILL SAY THAT YES, THEY ALSO ATTACKED OTHER PEOPLE.***************
Also, Timothy McVeigh denied religion, said he was not a christian.
Twin fist is also right, the nuts at the davidian compound were doing there own thing when the feds rolled up.
***************I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY WERE RIGHT IN SHOOTING UP THE FEDS, OR THAT THEY WERE INNOCENT OF THE CHARGES THAT LED THE FEDS TO RAID THEIR COMPOUND, I AM SAYING THEY WERE NOT GOING AROUND ATTACKING OTHER PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION, UNLESS SOMEONE KNOWS THAT THEY ACTUALLY WERE AND CAN SHOW ME THE ARTICLES, IN WHICH CASE I WILL SAY THAT YES, THEY ALSO ATTACKED OTHER PEOPLE.***************
looking at your Stats Stevebjj, it appears that the abortion bombers killed 8 people since 1977...that many people is hardly a nation wide threat compared to islamic violence in this country and around the world. Also, the killers do not recieve any support from the catholic church in any way and are condemned by the highest to lowest members of the church. The muslim killers around the world recieve quite a bit of sympathy, if not outright support from many in their communities. I remember a case of an honor killing, in Britain or Germany, where the a poll was taken in the community and something like 60 percent she deserved her death for acting German, It must have been germany. If you ask for the article I'll have to look it up. It was a while ago.
Here is one article on honor killings in Germany, haven't had time to read the whole article.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html
Here is one article on honor killings in Germany, haven't had time to read the whole article.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,344374,00.html
Steve
Mostly Harmless
TF said that christians don't blow **** up. I pointed out that in recent history, off the top of my head, I could point to several who have. It's not a matter of scope.
Lesson here is that crazy people do crazy ****, and often ascribe their craziness to a religion.
From the article on German honor killings:
The Turkish women's organization Papatya has documented 40 instances of honor killings in Germany since 1996.
In many cases, fathers -- and sometimes even mothers -- single out their youngest son to do the killing, Boehmecke said, "because they know minors will get lighter sentences from German judges." In some cases, these boys are revered by their community and fellow inmates as "honor heroes" -- a dementedly skewed status they carry with them for the rest of their lives. Currently, six boys are serving time in Berlin's juvenile prison for honor killings. "In a way, these boys are victims, too," she said. Sometimes they are forced to kill their favorite sister.
One of the unsettling truths about Hatin's death and the plight of many Muslim women is that it took the comments of three Turkish boys and the outrage of a male school director to get people to notice. When the murder first happened, it sent no shock waves through the mainstream German press. It only became big news when a group of 14-year-old Turkish boys mocked Hatin during a class discussion at a school near the crime scene. One boy said, "She only had herself to blame," while another insisted, "She deserved what she got. The whore lived like a German." The enraged school director not only sent a letter home to parents, but also to teachers across Germany. The letter ignited a media fury. Less known, however, is that the letter also hit a nerve among educators. "Teachers from across the country wrote back saying they had had similar experiences," Boehmecke said. They reported Turkish boys taunting Turkish girls who don't wear headscarves as "German sluts." "That's the part no one has written about. Clearly there is huge potential for similar violence across Germany," Boehmecke said. "Not just in the big cities, but all over. It's a problem many politicians haven't been willing to face."
Astonishingly, the first extensive data the German government collected about the lives of Turkish women was published last summer, as part of a study done by the Ministry for Family Affairs. The study showed that 49 percent of Turkish women said they had experienced physical or sexual violence in their marriage. One fourth of those married to Turkish husbands said they met their grooms on their wedding day. Half said they were pressured to marry partners selected by relatives and 17 percent felt forced into such partnerships.
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Yes, you are right on that but twin fist is also right about the muslim threat being different than abortion killings or bombings.
The Turkish women's organization Papatya has documented 40 instances of honor killings in Germany since 1996.
In many cases, fathers -- and sometimes even mothers -- single out their youngest son to do the killing, Boehmecke said, "because they know minors will get lighter sentences from German judges." In some cases, these boys are revered by their community and fellow inmates as "honor heroes" -- a dementedly skewed status they carry with them for the rest of their lives. Currently, six boys are serving time in Berlin's juvenile prison for honor killings. "In a way, these boys are victims, too," she said. Sometimes they are forced to kill their favorite sister.
One of the unsettling truths about Hatin's death and the plight of many Muslim women is that it took the comments of three Turkish boys and the outrage of a male school director to get people to notice. When the murder first happened, it sent no shock waves through the mainstream German press. It only became big news when a group of 14-year-old Turkish boys mocked Hatin during a class discussion at a school near the crime scene. One boy said, "She only had herself to blame," while another insisted, "She deserved what she got. The whore lived like a German." The enraged school director not only sent a letter home to parents, but also to teachers across Germany. The letter ignited a media fury. Less known, however, is that the letter also hit a nerve among educators. "Teachers from across the country wrote back saying they had had similar experiences," Boehmecke said. They reported Turkish boys taunting Turkish girls who don't wear headscarves as "German sluts." "That's the part no one has written about. Clearly there is huge potential for similar violence across Germany," Boehmecke said. "Not just in the big cities, but all over. It's a problem many politicians haven't been willing to face."
DPA
A memorial to Hatin, showing her holding her son when he was a baby. That was before she discarded her headscarf and insisted on living as she wanted.Astonishingly, the first extensive data the German government collected about the lives of Turkish women was published last summer, as part of a study done by the Ministry for Family Affairs. The study showed that 49 percent of Turkish women said they had experienced physical or sexual violence in their marriage. One fourth of those married to Turkish husbands said they met their grooms on their wedding day. Half said they were pressured to marry partners selected by relatives and 17 percent felt forced into such partnerships.
.....................................................................................
Yes, you are right on that but twin fist is also right about the muslim threat being different than abortion killings or bombings.
Honour killings are also practiced in India, by...
Hindus.
And BTW, the first recorded case of Honour killing was done by Jacob's sons anfter the rape of Dina.
You know, Jews.
[cough]Sabra and Shatila massacres[cough cough]. Kingsmill massacre. Karatina massacre. Tel-al Zaatar massacre. Khojaly massacre. Greysteel massacre. Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. Gulbarg Society massacre.
In fact, it would appear that Muslims attack Christians and Jews and Hindus, Hindus attack Muslims, Christians attack Muslims, Jews attack Muslims and Christians, and Protestants attack Catholics and Catholics attack protestants on a fairly regular basis; if we're just looking religion.
But people will see just exactly what they want to see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres
Have a nice evening gents. Stew well in those juices. I have a tournament to prepare for.
In fact, it would appear that Muslims attack Christians and Jews and Hindus, Hindus attack Muslims, Christians attack Muslims, Jews attack Muslims and Christians, and Protestants attack Catholics and Catholics attack protestants on a fairly regular basis; if we're just looking religion.
But people will see just exactly what they want to see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres
Have a nice evening gents. Stew well in those juices. I have a tournament to prepare for.
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
and ofg course, right on schedule, our resident muslim apologists will come in, throwing unrelated tidbits around, totally trying to hide and cover up the FACT that once again, MUSLIM tried to blow something up
they were MUSLIMS and nothing you can do or say will change it.
it doesnt matter what happened in 1200 bc
it doesnt matter what happened in 1200 AD
it matters what is happening NOW
MUSLIMS are trying to kill infidels for NO OTHER REASON than that they are not muslims.
and they are using the koran as justification
no one can hide or change that FACT
they were MUSLIMS and nothing you can do or say will change it.
it doesnt matter what happened in 1200 bc
it doesnt matter what happened in 1200 AD
it matters what is happening NOW
MUSLIMS are trying to kill infidels for NO OTHER REASON than that they are not muslims.
and they are using the koran as justification
no one can hide or change that FACT
this i can agree with. but it is the religion or it's practitioners?
so if the religion teaches them violence, then why arent all or most doing it? why is it just many?
I concur that many faiths and cultures have this stain on their hands. It's a disgrace to them, even tho' they may not see it as such (much as that boggles my mind). You don't want to know what has been happening in Libya, for example, in this regard since their civil war broke out.
Let's not bicker about who is worst, let us just agree that it is wrong and maybe do something constructive like writing to our political representatives. It's a tiny thing but, in the end, it is the politicos that represent us who have the power to start the ball rolling to change such things by diplomatic pressure.
Let's not bicker about who is worst, let us just agree that it is wrong and maybe do something constructive like writing to our political representatives. It's a tiny thing but, in the end, it is the politicos that represent us who have the power to start the ball rolling to change such things by diplomatic pressure.
OP
OP
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
because just like christianity, most people dont take religion all that seriously
the difference is, the bible doesnt really compel it's followers to go kill people
the koran does
Steve
Mostly Harmless
What's the definition of an honor killing? Is it where a person is killed for having brought dishonor on the family? Is it a crime of passion where the wife is killed for having committed adultery? Let's define honor killing, because I'm not having any trouble thinking of situations where white dudes in places like Texas have committed murder for similar reasons.
Some people need to actually read their Christian Bibles.
The whole thing.
Not the 'pick and choose' stuff.
As to the rest...facts don't matter when one is busy justifying their wet pants, and squishy butts while carrying torches and pitchforks in a crowd of like minded folks.
Facts, perspective, rational and level headed thinking. Nah.
Can we just pass a law requiring all Muslims to report to camps already? It's make some folks so happy..and I'm all about happiness today.
The whole thing.
Not the 'pick and choose' stuff.
As to the rest...facts don't matter when one is busy justifying their wet pants, and squishy butts while carrying torches and pitchforks in a crowd of like minded folks.
Facts, perspective, rational and level headed thinking. Nah.
Can we just pass a law requiring all Muslims to report to camps already? It's make some folks so happy..and I'm all about happiness today.
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