Here We Go Again

[Sukerkin]

It would seem that we get to see once more the desperate measures a politician will take when home news is bad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20896050

I truly hope that the Argentine President does not mean to press ahead with the actions her sabre rattling are going to lead to but I fear she is painting herself into a corner.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20897675

The British Prime Minister has made it clear on every occasion that no amount of rhetoric (some with dubious historical accuracy) is going to change the fact that the Falkland Islanders do not want to be Argentine. Until they do, then military action is the only course that will make Kirchner's political fantasy a reality. That didn't turn out so well for the Argentine military last time, a bit of history she would do well to remember.

 

[Tez3]

It would be nice if people realised that the Falklands aren't a colony and can't be legally handed over to anyone. The only thing the UK does for them is help with foreign policy (which basically means that Falkland Islander can use British embassies etc when abroad and the UK will look after Falkland Islanders rights when abroad) and it's defence as it's only a small place. The Falkland Islanders have their own government which will decide who if anyone they want to 'belong' to. Basically they do their own thing, we just defend their right to do that.
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/preside...on-to-talk-to-people-of-the-falkland-islands/

"Member of the Legislative Assembly Mike Summers yesterday closed his address to the Committee by saying:
“I have a letter from the Government of the Falkland Islands, which invites the Government of the Republic of Argentina to sit down and listen to the views of the people of the Falkland Islands, and enter into a dialogue, designed to find ways to co-operate in matters of mutual interest, and to preserve the environment of the South West Atlantic to the benefit of future generations of Falkland Islanders and Argentines, as we did before the on-set of sanctions by Argentina against our people. I invite the Argentine delegation to allow me to approach their table in order to hand over the letter”
Unable to reach President Kirchner, MLA Summers attempted to hand the letter to the Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman. Timerman refused to accept the letter.
MLA Gavin Short, spokesperson for the Legislative Assembly said:
“We are incredibly disappointed that the President of Argentina refused to accept an invitation from the Falklands Island Government to sit down and discuss the Falkland Islands.
“This is representative of the Argentine Government’s policy towards the Falkland Islands people – to ignore us, to deny our human rights, and to deny our rights as a people to determine their own future.”

I doubt the Argentinians can do anything militarily, the government may not even las long enough to start.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17576856

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, I agree - indeed I think I have also used that report you link to at the end there as an illustration that the Argentine government, most specifically it's President, seems to be hanging by a slender thread :nods:.

 

[Tez3]

Aye, I agree - indeed I think I have also used that report you link to at the end there as an illustration that the Argentine government, most specifically it's President, seems to be hanging by a slender thread :nods:.

I hope the Argentinian people won't be fooled by her and let themselves be dragged into something disastrous. I assume she knows that the Falkland Islanders won't won't to become Argentinians because she's going to be very stuck if they actually said yes! Taking the Falklands won't help Argentina's situation at all, far from it as they would have to take on more expense. The oil and mineral rights down there are at the moment just 'rights', nothing if flowing or being mined yet, it still requires a lot of investment. the big international companies aren't going to be willing to invest in Argentina if it's not stable.
The UK has a decent sized garrison down there, nuclear subs patrol, with the Afghan war being primarily a land based one the Navy gets to play down there. I wouldn't recommend invasion again. Even with Afghan we still have enough troops to cope with that.

 

[GrandmasterP]

Playing Argentina away is an easy win for us.
Argie tank has twelve reverse gears and two forward (in case the enemy attacks from behind) and the regimental colours of their special forces is a white flag.

 

[granfire]

Playing Argentina away is an easy win for us.
Argie tank has twelve reverse gears and two forward (in case the enemy attacks from behind) and the regimental colours of their special forces is a white flag.

ROFLMAO!!!

now that was mean of you to say!
(I was expecting a comment on undergarment color though)

 

[Tez3]

While a good many of the troops who invaded the Falklands were conscripts, poorly trained and led they did show a great deal of bravery against the professional British troops, their spec forces though at the time weren't to be underestimated , they also had some very fanatical officers intent of truning the Falklands into the same hell hole that Argentina was at the time. The Argentinian air force did a good job from their point of view.

 

[arnisador]

Do the right thing, U.K.! Quit hanging on to a piece of what should surely be Argentina. Settle this!

 

[Tez3]

Do the right thing, U.K.! Quit hanging on to a piece of what should surely be Argentina. Settle this!

Actually we would have got rid of it years ago but the Falkland Islands don't want to leave their islands and they don't want to leave the protection of the UK. It's NOT A COLONY, it has it's own government which is democratically elected by the Islanders, it would be best you talked to them about being Argentinians. Actually they are having a vote soon on being completely independant, Britain will support that as it would support them if they wanted to be Argentinian. As Cameron said 'It's up to the Islanders what they want and do', I trust you would support that or are you keen they become an Argentinian colony instead of an independent country?
As an American one would assume you had sympathy for a people being who and what they wanted rather than being passed around like slaves. The Falkland Islanders have every right to decide for themselves what they want to do, why can't people respect that.

On that basis when is America giving up it's foreign territories and allowing the people living there to become independent?

 

[Sukerkin]

Arni, unless you are joking and just missed off the smiley, don't make us draw out the history of the place again - we did that not long ago I think. In short, geographical proximity has nothing to do with 'ownership' of a piece of land once it is occupied.

The Argentinians have never had a legal claim to the Falklands; that's why they can't simply settle this in the international courts.

 

[arnisador]

Arni, unless you are joking and just missed off the smiley, don't make us draw out the history of the place again - we did that not long ago I think.

Sorry! There are so many political issues with two or more sides--I forgot that this one was the exception! I'm sure all right-thinking people will agree with you.

 

[Makalakumu]

legal claim

How does plopping guns and troops on a plot of land, killing resistors, and stealing from the survivors constitute a claim of ownership? Oh yeah, that's Colonialism isn't it!

 

[Tgace]

How does plopping guns and troops on a plot of land, killing resistors, and stealing from the survivors constitute a claim of ownership? Oh yeah, that's Colonialism isn't it!

That's human history...should I pack up my family and return to Europe?

Of course im such a mutt i wouldn't know what country to return to.

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[Tez3]

What is a plopping gun?

Sigh, people should look at the actual hisotry of the Falklan Islands before passing an opinion on it. it could just as easily belong to the French or the Spainish although they islands were discovered by an Englishman and explored by another. There never were any 'native's of the Falklands to be resisting, nor was anything stolen from them, you'd have to see the place to realise there is nothing to steal!

It would in the UK's interest to actually palm the Falklands off on someone, it costs an absolute fortune and gives little if anything in return. It has cost of a lot of British lives and is still doing so, many service personnel still suffer from their wounds both mental and physical however it was something that had to be done. the Falkland Islands were invaded, the Islandrs asked for help and we couldn't ignore that, we could of I suppose but we didn't. Wars such as Iraq and afghanistan have been started with less justification.

What do people think Argentina wants the Falklands for? To be a colony of course and what will they do with the people who live there? Replace them with Argentinians, they won't leave them there, the islanders will be relocated. If they are lucky they will escpae to the UK if not perhaps they will just disappear.
While arguing over the Islands no one seems to care about the Islanders and what they want. This surprises me about the Americans, I thought they would want the Falkland Islanders to have independence not be handed over to be a colony...which they aren't now.

 

[Sukerkin]

Sorry! There are so many political issues with two or more sides--I forgot that this one was the exception! I'm sure all right-thinking people will agree with you.

Possibly the ones conversant with the history of the place and the present interpretation of the applicable law. Please look it up yourself and decide what you think for I'm not going to argue with you about it.

Recall my New Years resolution about not getting het up about things that don't matter? Whilst the future of the Falklands and it's residents does matter, of course, I am not going to provide a sparring partner to argue over what is already clear. If you don't agree with me, that is absolutely fine. You are wrong but it is fine .

 

[Makalakumu]

That's human history...should I pack up my family and return to Europe?

Of course im such a mutt i wouldn't know what country to return to.

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Good point. I totally understand this, but I think it's important to point out that there is a large contradiction here. I do not establish my property rights by force. Maybe in a better future, we can expect governments to follow the same restriction.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Good point. I totally understand this, but I think it's important to point out that there is a large contradiction here. I do not establish my property rights by force. Maybe in a better future, we can expect governments to follow the same restriction.

You don't need to. Your ancestors already did it for you. So did mine. Being of Scottish ancestry establishing property rights by force is something of a family tradition.

 

[Makalakumu]

You don't need to. Your ancestors already did it for you. So did mine. Being of Scottish ancestry establishing property rights by force is something of a family tradition.

If my ancestors took property by force does that excuse the same behavior for myself? For my society?

 

[Tgace]

If my ancestors took property by force does that excuse the same behavior for myself? For my society?

The Falklands people have been living there for quite a while now..does Argentina have a right to take it from them? Does the UK have the right to protect them?

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[Tgace]

Good point. I totally understand this, but I think it's important to point out that there is a large contradiction here. I do not establish my property rights by force. Maybe in a better future, we can expect governments to follow the same restriction.

No...the government enforces your property rights by force for you. Legal force. Then, if that's ignored, ultimately REAL force.....

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