Heavy bag preference?

[JP3]

In the Thai-boxing gym at which I trained, they had all the bags you could think of... the floor-to-ceiling heavy sucker talked about above, it was all of 300 pounds and I'd be unsurprised to find out it was at 350. Speed & timing bags, hanging bags in weights from 70 to I think 200 pounds, an "uppercut" bag, which I think weight around 100 and sort of hung sideways, parallel to the floor.

The one I ended up training on the most was the floor-to-ceiling one.... most opportunity to work combos against resistance by yourself. Better to do that with a partner holding pads, but if you've no partner you're out of luck.

Based on advice from the old guy Golden Gloves coach, I always put the wrist-wraps on when doing bag work, so as to not screw up my wrists. I figured (one point of wisdom early in life, indicating there was some small hope for me...) that he knew what he was talking about, so I should listen to him. Wore the light bag gloves, too. Maybe I'm a ninny, but after doing 20-25 rounds of constant pounding on them things.... it did make a huge difference in being able to train the next day, and the next... so on and so forth.

Problem is witht he big bags, you have to have a special system designed to hold the weight and to be able to withstand the impact force driving into it creating torque vectors in the material holding the thing up.

 

[geezer]

my list of things i dont like....
water bags. i dont like the feel or the give.

I like them for close in combinations using elbows. The greater "give" saves my old shoulders a lot of stress. Some just prefer them for training to fight earthlings.

 

[Noah_Legel]

My personal preference, for an all-around heavy bag, is a 6ft bag of at least 120lbs, but preferably heavier, which is packed with cloth or rubber fill and has no sandbags for extra weight. Of course, it has to be well made, so it doesn't just fall apart on you. I also suggest hanging it on a swivel and a spring. You can work everything from ankle-height kicks to head kicks, and everything in between, as well as some grappling drills. Smaller bags can be used like a tachi-makiwara for footwork, movement, and deflection drills, but for power striking aren't all that helpful for adults.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I thought it was for your use, you didn't say it was for children

It was for my use as well. I used it as well in my own training. Because the bag was never hanging, I didn't have to worry about it swinging. If someone was giving away a heavy bag at this very moment I wouldn't go beyond a 100lb heavy bag made of the same material. A 100lb is more than enough for me to work on my punches and kicks. A 100lb bag would be heavy enough to take my strikes yet light enough to swing wildly if my strikes are pushing instead of hitting. I used to be able to hit that 30lb bag (when hanging) with about 70% power before it started swing. At 100% power the bag would swing a little but nothing like the 70 pound bag that the guy is hitting below. I actually miss hitting that bag. I got rid of it because I thought I was done with Martial arts, then 5 years later I got back in it again and they don't make bags like that anymore.

 

[JowGaWolf]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In the Thai-boxing gym at which I trained, they had all the bags you could think of... the floor-to-ceiling heavy sucker talked about above, it was all of 300 pounds and I'd be unsurprised to find out it was at 350. Speed & timing bags, hanging bags in weights from 70 to I think 200 pounds, an "uppercut" bag, which I think weight around 100 and sort of hung sideways, parallel to the floor.

The one I ended up training on the most was the floor-to-ceiling one.... most opportunity to work combos against resistance by yourself. Better to do that with a partner holding pads, but if you've no partner you're out of luck.

Based on advice from the old guy Golden Gloves coach, I always put the wrist-wraps on when doing bag work, so as to not screw up my wrists. I figured (one point of wisdom early in life, indicating there was some small hope for me...) that he knew what he was talking about, so I should listen to him. Wore the light bag gloves, too. Maybe I'm a ninny, but after doing 20-25 rounds of constant pounding on them things.... it did make a huge difference in being able to train the next day, and the next... so on and so forth.

Problem is witht he big bags, you have to have a special system designed to hold the weight and to be able to withstand the impact force driving into it creating torque vectors in the material holding the thing up.

I'd be interested in hearing from some folks with more knowledge of kinesiology than me, in regards to the wrist wraps. I don't do 25 rounds (usually 10-15 minutes at a time), but I do hit with force. I've always avoided using wrist wraps, because I won't be using them if/when I ever have to actually hit someone, but maybe that's not such a big deal. As for the bag gloves, I've never found a need for them. My hands don't get chewed up, and my knuckles don't hurt after using the bag, so I've never thought they were useful. That's based on precisely the amount of information you see in that statement.

 

[hoshin1600]

I'd be interested in hearing from some folks with more knowledge of kinesiology than me, in regards to the wrist wraps. I don't do 25 rounds (usually 10-15 minutes at a time), but I do hit with force. I've always avoided using wrist wraps, because I won't be using them if/when I ever have to actually hit someone, but maybe that's not such a big deal. As for the bag gloves, I've never found a need for them. My hands don't get chewed up, and my knuckles don't hurt after using the bag, so I've never thought they were useful. That's based on precisely the amount of information you see in that statement.

if you have use a bag with a vinyl type surface then yes, you dont need anything on your hands. however a thick canvas material does tend to rip the skin and from a health prospective you dont really want blood all over the bag.
a common cheap hand wrap does not really support your wrist much. i believe you are thinking more along the lines of a fighter stepping into the ring who has his hands and wrists wrapped by a pro with tape, its like a ball of concrete. but to just do a basic self wrap is not going to change much other then keep your knuckles from abrasions.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd be interested in hearing from some folks with more knowledge of kinesiology than me, in regards to the wrist wraps. I don't do 25 rounds (usually 10-15 minutes at a time), but I do hit with force. I've always avoided using wrist wraps, because I won't be using them if/when I ever have to actually hit someone, but maybe that's not such a big deal. As for the bag gloves, I've never found a need for them. My hands don't get chewed up, and my knuckles don't hurt after using the bag, so I've never thought they were useful. That's based on precisely the amount of information you see in that statement.

A person will be safe with no serious damage if he or she conditions correctly, meaning strengthening the wrists and by not trying to hit the heavy bag as hard as possible on day one. The conditioning takes time and it gives the body time to learn the correct structure for aligning the wrist for punching. Like you I have never used bag gloves and I've never used wrist wraps to punch a bag. I never had any need to. I also don't have any of the injuries that we often see with fighters who use wrist wraps and gloves.

With that said, the wrist wraps are probably a good idea if a person is using the boxing type gloves. For a self-defense perspective it's just better to hit without the gloves and to condition the hand and wrist, as well as use good technique to deliver power vs trying to hit something so hard that the knuckle explodes. I have never punched harder than what my hand could take.

 

[Headhunter]

If you notice no difference between a soft, heavy bag and a hard, very heavy bag, either something's wrong, or you use a bag very differently from everyone I've seen - can't tell which. There can be very drastic differences in feel between bags. Within and without gloves can give very different feedback.

I'm not sure where the gi comment comes in - kinda from left field.

Nothing wrong i just pay no attention to it. I'll hit whatever's in front of me it does the same job either way

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nothing wrong i just pay no attention to it. I'll hit whatever's in front of me it does the same job either way

That's been my approach, too, but I can definitely tell the difference. If a bag is really hard, I pull back the power. If it is really heavy, I'm not sure that has much influence, if the hardness is the same. If it does, I'm not aware of the adjustment I make. But I can feel that the bag is heavier.

 

[JP3]

In my Thai-boxing reference above, maybe I need to point out that it was a Thai-boxing Gym, with a very strong emphasis on "boxing." Guys walked in off the street, and if they were game, were immediately brought into the fold of being trained as if, one day, they'd fight in the ring, perhaps even do it professionally. We did the wrist wraps in the boxing professional manner, which took quite a bit of time to both learn and do... but it actually became sort of a weird moving mediation if you will. An enforced time period to slow down, and clear your mind prior to training.

The older GG guy I mentioned was a fan of the method of twisting the punch in at the end point to drive power in and sort of "down" into the target, so my knuckles were always scraping along the bags. Vinyl bags would leave marks like mat burns on a vinyl floor mat and the canvas would take the skin right off. As it seemed to make a difference when I punched someone "right" to his way of thinking then I considered that a positive in my own way of thinking. So, as I didn't want open sores on my hands all the time as I was working in a social setting (the door at the club) I did as told and wrapped nd wore the gloves.

When forced to hit someone at work, I never had any problems. Not that I was Geoff Thompson or anything. But, occasionally guys do swing and it is really, really hard to not already be in mid-counter and combo if you've been training that for a while.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In my Thai-boxing reference above, maybe I need to point out that it was a Thai-boxing Gym, with a very strong emphasis on "boxing." Guys walked in off the street, and if they were game, were immediately brought into the fold of being trained as if, one day, they'd fight in the ring, perhaps even do it professionally. We did the wrist wraps in the boxing professional manner, which took quite a bit of time to both learn and do... but it actually became sort of a weird moving mediation if you will. An enforced time period to slow down, and clear your mind prior to training.

The older GG guy I mentioned was a fan of the method of twisting the punch in at the end point to drive power in and sort of "down" into the target, so my knuckles were always scraping along the bags. Vinyl bags would leave marks like mat burns on a vinyl floor mat and the canvas would take the skin right off. As it seemed to make a difference when I punched someone "right" to his way of thinking then I considered that a positive in my own way of thinking. So, as I didn't want open sores on my hands all the time as I was working in a social setting (the door at the club) I did as told and wrapped nd wore the gloves.

When forced to hit someone at work, I never had any problems. Not that I was Geoff Thompson or anything. But, occasionally guys do swing and it is really, really hard to not already be in mid-counter and combo if you've been training that for a while.

That makes sense. If I even worked regularly on those rough canvas bags, I might change my mind about having some hand protection.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The older GG guy I mentioned was a fan of the method of twisting the punch in at the end point to drive power in and sort of "down" into the target

I hit downward into a heavy bag to work on my punches and that's one of the punches that takes extra care with doing with a bare fist. If the knuckles aren't scraping then the skin is pulling.

The bags don't move the same way as someone skin, so there's no bunching of the flesh like there is when getting punched in the gut..

 

[Danny T]

This is some of what I'm looking for. If I put one in, it will be only one. And I've only used a few different ones. It sounds like you guys have really worked out some specialization in bags. Do you know what any of them are filled with?

Cut up and shredded cloth. The shredded cloth is more dense than the cut up cloth.

 

[JR 137]

Bags are tools. Each bag type has its advantageous uses. Use the wrong bag, and you're short changing your training.

I like firmer bags, but they've got to have some give to them. A bag that's too hard will have me not hit as hard as I can. I'm not going to hit a brick wall as hard as I can day in and day out.

A bag that's too soft doesn't develop power. Hitting a pillow full force does very little to develop much of anything.

Weight and firmness aren't directly related. If you've got a Dick's Sporting Goods near you, hit the pink and black 70 lb Everlast cardio bag, then hit the 110 lb UFC oversized bag. The 70 lb bag is twice as firm.

To develop power, you need a heavier and firmer bag. A 50 lb firm bag will swing all over the place, even when hit properly and not pushed. A 100 lb bag will take quite a bit of force to swing around wildly when hit right. When the 100 lb bag is easy to get moving around (when hit properly), more up to a heavier bag. When the 150 lb bag becomes easy, move up again. It's just like weight training. If you're easily moving a bag (again, while hitting it properly), you're not going to get much stronger. Just like if bench pressing 200 lbs becomes easy and you don't add more weight.

My preference is a 150 lb rag filled Muay Thai bag, like Outslayer. They're quite firm, yet not like hitting a brick wall. Sand clumps up and hardens, giving spots that feel like rocks. Water bags have too much give. Rags that are packed very tightly strike a great balance IMO. I haven't hit a rubber mulch bag, so no comment there.

6-7 foot bags work for me because I can practice combos like calf height kicks with faces punches and everything in between without worrying about raising and lowering the bag. You can't do a jab-cross to the face-roundhouse to the outside of the knees on a 4 foot bag. You can on a 6 ft bag though.

I can't get a 150 lb bag to swing wildly. I can get it to move, but it's not going all over the place. If I had a 150 lb bag and I outgrew it, I'd add more rags to it to make it heavier. Outslayer's 150 lb bags can be filled up to 300 lb or so, according to the manufacturer.

I always wear gloves. Not big padded gloves though. I don't want to tear up my hands. It just wouldn't be right if your middle school kid's teacher showed up to work every day with scabbed up knuckles. The way I hit the bag, some punches intentionally slide off the bag. The way I throw a hook, I try to take a chunk out of the bag rather than hit it square on the side. Picture hitting someone's jaw/chin with a hook - it'll turn their head and the follow through will in effect rub off. Freddie Roach does a far better job explaining it in one of his videos.

I don't need to condition my hands. I get enough of that from knuckle push-ups on the wood floor in the dojo. I use MMA gloves to protect my skin. I tried wraps a few times and didn't feel like they did anything for me. I had a competitive boxer wrap my hands with wraps (not tape), so I don't think it was the technique that was wrong. Regular boxing gloves don't do much for me either, other than make my hands heavier, which does help with speed somewhat.

All of that being said, I have a BOB XL in my basement because I can't hang a bag due to ceiling height. I filled the base with with about 300 lbs of pea gravel. Water sloshes around way too much. The pea gravel keeps it where it needs to be. I'd like it to be firmer and be able to swing a bit more (like a bag, not like it rocks), but I'm pretty happy with what I've got. It's not perfect, but it's so much better than nothing at all.

 

[JP3]

I hit downward into a heavy bag to work on my punches and that's one of the punches that takes extra care with doing with a bare fist. If the knuckles aren't scraping then the skin is pulling.

The bags don't move the same way as someone skin, so there's no bunching of the flesh like there is when getting punched in the gut..

It'd be neat if we could just pay a guy in pizza and beer after class to stand there during class and be the boxing bag. He'd be very realistic in the "feel" I think.

He'd probably wear out in a week though, and you'd have to take him down and get a new one.

 

[DanT]

I'd be interested in hearing from some folks with more knowledge of kinesiology than me, in regards to the wrist wraps. I don't do 25 rounds (usually 10-15 minutes at a time), but I do hit with force. I've always avoided using wrist wraps, because I won't be using them if/when I ever have to actually hit someone, but maybe that's not such a big deal. As for the bag gloves, I've never found a need for them. My hands don't get chewed up, and my knuckles don't hurt after using the bag, so I've never thought they were useful. That's based on precisely the amount of information you see in that statement.

I study Kinesiology. I don't use wrist wraps or gloves. The key is to start light on the light bag and then as your technique improves you slowly increase power. If you punch wrong, you'll hurt your wrist. The key is to develop a perfect technique. The problem with gloves is that many people wind up throwing punches that would in reality break their hands. Especially hooks. You wind up developing very strong forearms and wrists and knuckles after years of punching the heavy bag bare knuckle.

 

[Flying Crane]

I study Kinesiology. I don't use wrist wraps or gloves. The key is to start light on the light bag and then as your technique improves you slowly increase power. If you punch wrong, you'll hurt your wrist. The key is to develop a perfect technique. The problem with gloves is that many people wind up throwing punches that would in reality break their hands. Especially hooks. You wind up developing very strong forearms and wrists and knuckles after years of punching the heavy bag bare knuckle.

And with this same approach, I personally find no need to go heavier than maybe 60% of your own body weight. I weigh about 160-165, if I'm in good shape I'll be a bit under 160. I don't feel any need for anything heavier than about 80-90 pounds. That's plenty, in my opinion.

But I don't box 20 rounds on the bag, and I don't use any protective gear at all, such as wraps or gloves. Take your time and build up to it, systematically hone your individual strikes on the bag. Don't spar the bag. Maybe a couple hundred strikes per session is enough, if you aren't trying to be a pro fighter. And use your jow.

 

[Ironbear24]

Mine is 100 pounds.

 

[Ironbear24]

I must train on it. I must destroy it.