Health care taken over

[Cryozombie]

True, but how much choice do you have with health care? If you belong to an HMO, you just can't pick any doctor you want, if you get health insurance from your employer then you just can't pick any insurance company to deal with.

In any case all the insurance companies belong to a central data base which tracks your underwriting and claims.

I suppose you could pay for everything yourself, but that is a quick way to bankruptcy unless you are exceedingly wealthy.

Well, you can choose not to take an HMO but a PPO instead, you can do what so many of the Undocumented's do by us, use the Hospital's ED as your PCP, poor it up and go to a Doc in the Box, or work the system. There are ways to choose your health care.

As far as the Databases, I don't deny they exist, but access to them is Limited by HIPPA... For example, I work at the hospital, and I cannot just access a medical record... every time I do it flags the record, and I need to be prepared if the JC comes in and does auditing (which they did last week) I need to explain why I was in those records. I ask you who will really be providing that kind of oversight to the Government or their "National Coordinator of Health Information Technology"... I guessing no one really.

 

[Phoenix44]

Access to confidential medical information is not completely limited by HIPAA. Every single time you go to your doctor and the visit is covered by insurance, and every time you get a medication on your prescription plan, you've signed away your right to confidentiality.

From my vantage point, the only way you can protect your medical information is to go to the doctor under a false name, and pay full price in cash for all services and medication.

I personally worry more about paper medical records than I do about electronic databases, which, as Cryozombie points out, can be more difficult to access and have an electronic trail.

My personal approach is to stay as healthy as possible!

 

[Gordon Nore]

it's not a Canadian or French style system where all the doctors work for the government.

Phoenix, you've pretty much described the Canadian system. {However,} Doctors are not on a gov't salary, they are paid on a fee-for-service basis. A GP referall is usually needed for specialist, but most GPs do so as a matter of course. It's even in their advantage ($) to do so. You show up at their office, ask for a referall and they charge a visit fee.

Phoenix,

CanuckMA has already made the correction, so my intention is not to brow beat, nor to be an apologist for Canada's health care policy. However, this sort of inaccurate information about our health insurance and health care is ubiquitous in the USA. I have been amazed in my adult lifetime reading US news and watching television broadcasts to hear medical professionals, insurance executives, politicians, pundits, and journalists dole out lies about what happens just across your borders.

My wife is an ex-pat American, and it has been friggin' hysterical to hear the histrionics from my in-laws over the years about how crappy our care is here in Canada. They call us up and tell us what they heard. And we say, "No, we don't do that," etc. "No, but we just heard it on the news," they say.

 

[Marginal]

Uh huh. Whats that term you psedo-intellectualls are so fond of tossing about... somthing about a man, made from hay or somesuch...

A non sequitorial strawman eh? You've got a point. I was being puckishly obtuse.

To sum up my my argument:

1) Not all government agencies perform their function badly. (Post office)
2) Even with a government agency at work, it doesn't necessarily negate private enterprise. (UPS, Fed Ex...)

Therefore, presuming incompetence and that there will be no other options should the government step in doesn't follow.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, as a patient and as a doctor, I am strongly in favor of a national health service in this country. And I don't really care whether it is a fee-for-service program like Medicare or the Canadian system (thank you for the correction), or whether it is a French style system.

In the US, we already have a government directed fee-for-service system, and that is Medicare, which currently only applies to senior citizens. So as I see it, expanding Medicare to cover all ages would be the easiest transition.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I only know this.

A few years ago, I went in to my doctor for a routine physical. He did the complete workup and asked me how I was feeling. I said I was fine. How's work? Oh, work's fine, you know, job sucks, boss sucks, that kind of thing. Oh, you depressed? Well, sure, who wouldn't be? Hey, I've got some new anti-depressants that this drug company rep gave me to try out, would you like a prescription? No charge.

Hmmm. Well, never been a pill-popper, but they're free, and I was pretty bummed out at work, why not?

I tried them until the 'freebies' ran out, and didn't notice anything. Told the doctor so. Do you want more? No, I think I'm fine. OK, then.

Several years go by. I have a new job. I can apply for oodles of cheap additional term life insurance, so I do.

Turns out I have to pass a physical and fill out a health questionnaire. OK. So I do.

Got turned down.

Reason?

I was 'treated for clinical depression'. End of story. No life insurance for you, bucko. Great. I popped three weeks worth of happy pills, at my doctor's suggestion, turns out I wasn't depressed after all - my job just really did suck that much. Too bad, labeled for life. Now that is depressing.

Now I only go to the doctor if forced to, and then I lie my *** off. Anything wrong? Nope. Any problems? Nope. Family history? They're all healthy as horses, lived to 110 years old. Are you sure? Kiss my ***, Doc. You get bupkis from me. I wouldn't say anything if my arms fell off. Take my pulse and blood pressure, do the prostate thing, sign my form, and leave me the hell alone.

Non servium, baby. If I can refuse to comply, I do. If I am compelled to comply, I lie. Up theirs. This is what they want, this is what they get.

 

[Phoenix44]

Hey, I went for bereavement counseling after my baby died. After that, I couldn't get disability insurance.

So confidentiality is a moot point whether you're discussing corporate or government health insurance.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hey, I went for bereavement counseling after my baby died. After that, I couldn't get disability insurance.

So confidentiality is a moot point whether you're discussing corporate or government health insurance.

That's horrible. It's worse than that, it's evil. I'm very sorry to hear that, and also for your loss.

 

[Phoenix44]

Thanks.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Got turned down.

Reason?

I was 'treated for clinical depression'. End of story. No life insurance for you, bucko. Great. I popped three weeks worth of happy pills, at my doctor's suggestion, turns out I wasn't depressed after all - my job just really did suck that much. Too bad, labeled for life. Now that is depressing.

Hey, I went for bereavement counseling after my baby died. After that, I couldn't get disability insurance.

So confidentiality is a moot point whether you're discussing corporate or government health insurance.

Despicable, inhumane, beyond contempt.

Had a flood in my basement years ago. Insurance determined the fault in our drain to be pre-existing to the policy on our home. Declined.

Fine. That's my house, a thing. Applying the same sort of thinking to person's health and welfare, a person who has to pay for that insurance in the first place, is morally bankrupt.

 

[Ramirez]

Just to add to what Gordon and Canuck MA said, the Canadian health care system is not universal health care, it is universal health insurance.

The UK has universal health care..the doctors are on a government salary,they also have a private health care system if you want to go outside the system. In Canada, the doctors work for themselves and bill a single payor, the government.

I often hear Canadians saying they want to pay for private health care, well they can, they can go to the US and privately pay for any treatment any time they want, but they don't, what they want to do is pay the minimum amount in order to jump the queue in front of their fellow Canadians.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I often hear Canadians saying they want to pay for private health care, well they can, they can go to the US and privately pay for any treatment any time they want, but they don't, what they want to do is pay the minimum amount in order to jump the queue in front of their fellow Canadians.

Truth. That sort of thinking doesn't bring out the best in me. The temptation to say, "Love it or leave it," flares up. The Canadian system has one thing in common with the US (and everywhere else) -- it isn't free. Holding the line on taxation has become a moral imperative in Canada, and the reality is that we have to reinvest in the system to maintain it: technology, training, bricks & mortar.

Another aspect of our care is that there is a private layer to health insurance that is not universal. My employer and I pay into a private plan which affords me prescription lenses (with a limit of $250 per family member per two years), comprehensive dental, braces for my boy'o, prescription drugs (a huge savings), semi-private hospital room, etc. Not everyone has that.

In Ontario, a former gov't de-listed a number of services from the plan -- notably, to my mind, a significant portion of eye care. Kids, teens and older adults are covered for eye appt's. My wife is covered because of a medical condition, but the rest of us pay out of pocket. I can take the hit, but I'm at an age where my eye glasses prescription changes often. I think a lot of people are walking around not being able to see as well as they should.

 

[Ramirez]

the system to maintain it: technology, training, bricks & mortar.

Another aspect of our care is that there is a private layer to health insurance that is not universal. My employer and I pay into a private plan which affords me prescription lenses (with a limit of $250 per family member per two years), comprehensive dental, braces for my boy'o, prescription drugs (a huge savings), semi-private hospital room, etc. Not everyone has that.

to be honest, a universal insurance system is pretty frickin useless without a universal pharmacare system. You can get all the tax funded visits to the doctor you want, but if you can't afford the prescription is it pretty useless.

There was a documentary on the beginning of medicare in Saskatchewan and one of the doctors invterviewed said how his colleagues fought tooth and nail against it, then realized they made much more money after it was implemented.

Believe me, most general practioners here would much rather work under the Canadian system than work for an HMO.