Have you ever wondered...

[Daniel Sullivan]

Well if she trains five days a week she is the kind of student the arts need.

The organisation that awarded her a second degree blackbelt is NOT what we need. Like the other 99% of the population they obviously have no concept of what the dan rank means. GM Sell is it? What an appropriate name.

This is the very reason that I am firmly against poom rank students wearing blackbelts. Back on post 12, Iceman did verify that she is second poom, not second dan. But since she's allowed to wear a blackbelt, rather than a poom belt, the reporter is going to call her a second degree blackbelt. The responsibility for this misrepresentation lies squarely on the shoulders of the grandmaster at Knoxville school, not the Chung Do Kwan organization or the reporter.

Regarding the training five days a week for nine years, I wholeheartedly agree that she is the kind of student the arts need.

Daniel

 

[StuartA]

This is the very reason that I am firmly against poom rank students wearing blackbelts. Back on post 12, Iceman did verify that she is second poom, not second dan. But since she's allowed to wear a blackbelt, rather than a poom belt, the reporter is going to call her a second degree blackbelt. The responsibility for this misrepresentation lies squarely on the shoulders of the grandmaster at Knoxville school, not the Chung Do Kwan organization or the reporter.

And when shes 16 she`ll grade for 3rd degee!!! Or 4th if shes 3rd poom by then:waah:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yes, that grates on me with KKW as well, though with a student who by the age of 16 has trained for twelve solid years (which she will have by that age), it bothers me a wee bit less. If she truly turns out to be a lifer, then it is not such an issue in the grand scheme of things.

Still, I'd like to see poom students be made to take an adult level first dan test in order to make those little pooms grow up to be dans.

Daniel

 

[rmclain]

I have to commend her for training for 9 years. As a youth, this is quite an accomplishment.

But, she should be much, much better if she trained 5 days/week for 9 years. What was she learning?

Also, when I watched the video I couldn't help but think, "What the heck is up with all of these fat TKD instructors these days?" I thought discipline was a tennant of TKD. Don't these instructors have the discipline to continue training and take care of themselves?

R. McLain

 

[igillman]

The dan rank you get is with you for life, no matter how out of shape you get. There are a lot of instructors out there whose aim was to get a 3rd Dan or a 4th Dan and not necessarily to keep fit. Now they have achieved their aim they are no longer interested in training. There are also a lot of instructors who teach by standing at the front and telling the class what to do. We are lucky in our dojang, our instructors actually take part in classes and kick and run with us a lot of the time.

 

[zDom]

Well if she trains five days a week she is the kind of student the arts need.

The organisation that awarded her a second degree blackbelt is NOT what we need. Like the other 99% of the population they obviously have no concept of what the dan rank means. GM Sell is it? What an appropriate name.

Not sure what you are trying to imply, but I've met GM Sell (Sr., as in Ed Sell, 9th dan, not Ron Sell, his son) and he is The Real Deal. He and his wife, GM Brenda Sell, were the panel for my 2nd dan test.

I wouldn't have tested in front of them if they didn't measure up to my expectations.

 

[mango.man]

I wouldn't have tested in front of them if they didn't measure up to my expectations.

This is a strange comment to me. Are you saying that you would have asked them to be removed from your panel of evaluators had something about them not met your standards?

When did arrogance become a tenant?

Still, I'd like to see poom students be made to take an adult level first dan test in order to make those little pooms grow up to be dans.

Perhaps this should be a subject of a new thread, but how does poom belt testing work in your school, specifically as comparred to black belt testing?

When my daughter tested for her first poom (age 9 after 4 years of training usually 5-6 days a week and often for 2-3 hours a day) she was in the same room as 15 other people testing for everything from 1st poom to 3rd dan and ranging in age from 9 (she was the youngest) to 60+. With the exception of breaking a concrete block with her hand, she did the same exact test as everyone else in the room.

It was a long time ago, but as I recall the test was something along the lines of:

1 Hr meditation
2 Hr warmup drills (stretching, running, jumping jacks, push ups, sit ups etc)
90 Min lecture from members of the testing panel
Short break for food
More stretching
Perform every form that you have learned
1 step sparring
3 step sparring
Grabbing self defense drills
1 on 1 sparring
2 on 1 sparring
3 on 1 sparring
single board breaking (standard technique)
multi board breaking (power break)
single board break (speed break such as someone drops a board from above and you must hit and break it before it hits the ground)
Oral test on Korean phrases, dojang regulations, black belt creed etc.
2-3 minute speach on how TKD has changed your life.
8-10 page typed paper on a subject related to TKD (turned in 1 week prior to testing)

Yes her mother and I helped her with her speech and thesis. But everything else, we obviously could not do much to help with.

 

[terryl965]

It doesnt matter what org shes with or how they do their ranking, whether she has a poom belt, whether its really a state thing or a small org thing etc.

The story read: She’s only 13, and is the top Tae Kwon Do competitor in the United States - and thats what everyone hears/reads as they see this little 13 year old on screen and this reflect back on the whole TKD world!

No offence, but even if they are the best Junior or best 13 year old Id still have my doubts watching the clip! Reading between the lines it seems if you attend more competitions than the next person and in the comps have more bouts (as Im pretty sure WTF junior divisions do), you get more points... is that right and if so its a silly ranking system as its more based on opportunity as opposed to skill!

Stuart

Stuart AAU and USAT does not have a point system they have fight offs for there National Team weathe juniors or seniors, so it is always up to be the very best all the time. These point systems are a joke to me, but to be fair with everyone int he USCDKA GM Sell is a great teacher and was a great competitor back in the day and his wife Brenda is as well. To bad the story did not follow the rules of engagement about proper editing and get the right story for all to read.

 

[zDom]

This is a strange comment to me. Are you saying that you would have asked them to be removed from your panel of evaluators had something about them not met your standards?

When did arrogance become a tenant?

Nope. What I mean is, I would have never accepted the opportunity to train under their banner or to be tested by them in the first place.

My apologies if this was misinterpreted as arrogance. But then, if you think it is arrogant to decide WHO I will accept instruction and critique from, then color me guilty as charged.

And they were not PART of the panel; they WERE the panel in its entirety. I was honored to have them as my testing board and remain so to this day.

 

[PEP-REP]

The point here she is dedicated to the martial arts which is a great thing.. best in the nation.. lol I think not ... put her in a WTF olmpic style ring and she would get killed.. she doesn't have very good technique from watching that video.. I would bet my last dollar that her sparring leaves alot to be desired.. however again the dedication to martial arts is a great thing.. I am sure ( or atleast hope) she wouldn't be saying she is the best TKDist in the country that is the media

JMO

Glenn

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Perhaps this should be a subject of a new thread, but how does poom belt testing work in your school, specifically as comparred to black belt testing?

When my daughter tested for her first poom (age 9 after 4 years of training usually 5-6 days a week and often for 2-3 hours a day) she was in the same room as 15 other people testing for everything from 1st poom to 3rd dan and ranging in age from 9 (she was the youngest) to 60+. With the exception of breaking a concrete block with her hand, she did the same exact test as everyone else in the room.

It was a long time ago, but as I recall the test was something along the lines of:

1 Hr meditation
2 Hr warmup drills (stretching, running, jumping jacks, push ups, sit ups etc)
90 Min lecture from members of the testing panel
Short break for food
More stretching
Perform every form that you have learned
1 step sparring
3 step sparring
Grabbing self defense drills
1 on 1 sparring
2 on 1 sparring
3 on 1 sparring
single board breaking (standard technique)
multi board breaking (power break)
single board break (speed break such as someone drops a board from above and you must hit and break it before it hits the ground)
Oral test on Korean phrases, dojang regulations, black belt creed etc.
2-3 minute speach on how TKD has changed your life.
8-10 page typed paper on a subject related to TKD (turned in 1 week prior to testing)

Yes her mother and I helped her with her speech and thesis. But everything else, we obviously could not do much to help with.

That is actually a very comprehensive test. Our poom test is similar, though we don't require the essay to be quite as long and the candidates don't have to meditate for quite that long.

Warmups for a dan test are much more intense than they are for the poom candidates, and they are expected to do them clean and correctly. Dan candidates are expected to be more precise than poom candidates; kiddies are generally not capable of that level of precision, even after two to four years of training, and dan candidates are exptected to display a great deal of spirit and power. The test ends with the candidate having to spar against ascending dan rank students with no break in between, culminating with sparring one of the masters. They are expected to spar cleanly (meaning not sloppy) and to maintain composure in spite of being fairly spent.

My big issue with having pooms test for the dan rank is that young kids are not capable of the level of precision and power in their technique that a first dan should possess, though an older first poom candidate may be able to approach this. But a kid who tests when they're ten, as I'd gather the young lady in the news report did, cannot meet the same level of stamina, precision and power, nor show the maturation needed to be first dan. A ten year old blackbelt cannot hold their own in full contact sparring against an adult first dan.

To me, the rank of first dan encompasses a set of minimum requirements; if the candidate cannot meet those, then they should not test until they can. Most young teens cannot meet such requirements and no tween or school age child can meet them. Not a dis to the kids; but a first dan means more than what a child is physically capable of or mature enough for.

That is my opinion and my view.

Daniel

 

[IcemanSK]

The point here she is dedicated to the martial arts which is a great thing.. best in the nation.. lol I think not ... put her in a WTF olmpic style ring and she would get killed.. she doesn't have very good technique from watching that video.. I would bet my last dollar that her sparring leaves alot to be desired.. however again the dedication to martial arts is a great thing.. I am sure ( or atleast hope) she wouldn't be saying she is the best TKDist in the country that is the media

JMO

Glenn

The story did not explain the ranking system works. It also doesn't not say what events she competes in. Each competitor in a USCDKA tournament gets points for 1st, 2nd or 3rd place. Points are accumulated after each tournament one enters. The point values are most likely the same whether competes in forms, weapons or sparring. This girl apparently goes to a lot of USCDKA tournaments & does well. If she competes in weapons & competes against other 13 year olds & wins, maybe she gets 10 points (or whatever it is) for that tournament. If the guy who wins 1st BB at sparring at that tournament doesn't go to as many as she does, his point total will be lower for the year.

It has nothing to do with skill level. It simply encourages participation in USCDKA tournaments for USCDKA students. The story did not mention these details at all. "The best in the country" simply means she is the top points winner in the organization.