Has the Arts forgotten Respect?

[WC_lun]

Mini clicks are groups within the school that hang out and train together, avoiding training with or interacting with other students. Usually in bigger schools or ones with a lot of politics.

I can't speak for other schools, but for ours respect is alive and well. We all like each other and train hard together. We are also all adults, many of us 40+. We don't bow to each other or call the instructor sir. Most times we call him by his first name, not his title. We even joke around a bit in class. However, we take our training very seriously and respect each other as people and skilled martial artist. Not to do so would get people hurt. The only problems we have ever had is people coming in wanting to show us how good they are at whatever they did before or people not wanting to actualy work. These things are addressed when they come up.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I have been a proud practitioner of Shotokan Karate for over 8 years and have achieved the rank of Red belt, becoming the highest rank in my dojo. Throughout my 8 years of training, the most stressed aspect of Karate was Respect. Respect for youself, your opponent, and for everyone and everything in between. However, lately, what I've seen of other dojos in my area through tournaments and talking to other martial artists i know has utterly mortified me. Black belts, waltzing through the rings WHILE PEOPLE ARE COMPETING! Are you kidding me?! Threats and taunts during sparring?! I can understand being competitive but really?! What are instructors teaching their students nowadays? Is this how it is all over? please respond.

I think it is just as important how someone acts outside the school as inside. This says a lot about their integrity and their character. It is one thing to 'play' martial arts by bowing and being polite at school and acting like an idiot or bully outside the school. Kind of like someone going to church on Sunday but acting the fool Monday through Saturday.

This extends to the internet as well. I see a lot of things go on in threads that might never go on in person or in a school. I see people whine about respect to seniors and such, but on the net they are arrogant towards others, demean others or drop subtle digs or talk about people who aren't members and can't respond. Very hypocritical.

The best thing is to be respectful yourself, and distance yourself from those that aren't.

 

[Blade96]

I have been a proud practitioner of Shotokan Karate for over 8 years and have achieved the rank of Red belt, becoming the highest rank in my dojo. Throughout my 8 years of training, the most stressed aspect of Karate was Respect. Respect for youself, your opponent, and for everyone and everything in between. However, lately, what I've seen of other dojos in my area through tournaments and talking to other martial artists i know has utterly mortified me. Black belts, waltzing through the rings WHILE PEOPLE ARE COMPETING! Are you kidding me?! Threats and taunts during sparring?! I can understand being competitive but really?! What are instructors teaching their students nowadays? Is this how it is all over? please respond.

I'm a happy proud 2 year shotokanka and I agree with you.

 

[Eric_H]

This thread pretty well outlines why I usually (and unfortunately) don't get along with most Karate people.

Respect should never have to be asked for or demanded. The people who demand it, usually aren't worth it.

If you want to be respected, act in a way that's respectable. If someone's acting respectable to you, do the same. The best teachers I've had never had to talk about "respect" because they inspired it. The ones who were the worst tried to make it a big deal and demanded it.

That's pretty much the beginning, middle and end of it from my corner.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I think it is just as important how someone acts outside the school as inside. This says a lot about their integrity and their character. It is one thing to 'play' martial arts by bowing and being polite at school and acting like an idiot or bully outside the school. Kind of like someone going to church on Sunday but acting the fool Monday through Saturday.

This extends to the internet as well. I see a lot of things go on in threads that might never go on in person or in a school. I see people whine about respect to seniors and such, but on the net they are arrogant towards others, demean others or drop subtle digs or talk about people who aren't members and can't respond. Very hypocritical.

The best thing is to be respectful yourself, and distance yourself from those that aren't.

^^^^^^

This.

I don't touch drugs, I don't drink very much, I don't flip people off in traffic, I don't swear in public, I don't drive like an arsehole, and I'm not disrespectful. It's important to me to be a good martial artist and as far as I'm concerned conduct outside the gym is every bit as important as inside.

 

[OKenpo942]

This is not the rule. Besides, you can generally tell the good from the bad in more way than one. I usually see that those competitors that are continually placing in tournaments are from schools that place value on respect and discipline.

I'm from a very laid back school, but we are very respectfull of one another as a family would be. This extends to others as well. We are taught to be respectfull of everyone.

Generally those that have the big mouths will intimidate the less skilled opponents earlier in the competition. As their competition improves in the later rounds, the skill speaks for itself and opponents are not so easily intimidated.

Yes, I am mainly referring to sparring. I am not mentioning other categories for a reason. The less disciplined practitioners are usually incapable of putting in the time or don't care to make a kata, self defense demo, or weapons kata look the way it should. Besides, if you trash talk the judges, you probably won't do so well and will have wasted your entry fee.

James

 

[tshadowchaser]

I feel that much of what we see at tournaments and in the schools today starts in the household and id directly related to the way people are treated in general.
How many youths today call an older person Sir? How often do you see younger people address older people by their first name? What has happened to commen respect in the street, home, school, etc. is what we see at all other locations.
It is not the place of an instructor to instill respect. They can only try to instruct what maybe should have been taught some where else

 

[Blade96]

I don't want a younger person calling me 'miss adams' I'm Jacklyn.

I would disagree on that, because calling a older person by first name does not mean that they don't respect you.

 

[Cyriacus]

I feel that much of what we see at tournaments and in the schools today starts in the household and id directly related to the way people are treated in general.
How many youths today call an older person Sir? How often do you see younger people address older people by their first name? What has happened to commen respect in the street, home, school, etc. is what we see at all other locations.
It is not the place of an instructor to instill respect. They can only try to instruct what maybe should have been taught some where else

Personally, I call anyone I dont Dislike, Sir

Also, that aside; Perhaps if it was wanted, a Student would call their Instructer "Sir" after either doing enough Pushups on their Knuckles to need to rest their Arms for 10 minutes - Or walk out like a snotty prat

 

[Jenna]

I don't want a younger person calling me 'miss adams' I'm Jacklyn.

I would disagree on that, because calling a older person by first name does not mean that they don't respect you.

I think the point you raise here is that we each have ways that we can be addressed (or treated) that would feel either respectful or disrespectful. To you, Jacklyn, being addressed formally is unnecessary and maybe makes you feel uneasy for example. However, if you had been accustomed while growing up to use (or had been directed / made by your seniors to use) that form of address regularly, you may feel now that being addressed by your given name by someone your junior would be a minor infraction of your own boundaries of respect and familiarity. I think this is further a symptom of how society as a whole has slackened its demand for respect.

I think in these cases it is imperative to make clear what OUR OWN boundaries of respect are for US as individuals. We cannot deride those who breach our personal boundaries of respect if they were never educated to what those boundaries were in the first place.

I think some boundaries are a given and but not all.

 

[Mike Melillo]

The only acts of disrespect in our dojo come from the younger students, who don't bother to read the etiquette... Talking back in class, not bowing in or out, etc... But these are newb/kid issues, not the majority, and they get resolved. Parents talking loudly is something I've seen everywhere and it is difficult to stop. The only time I saw anything close to disrespect in our dojo was at the end of one night, when a student was going to give a breaking demo. The class fell silent and gathered around as he prepared himself. A solitary phone rang out suddenly, and instead of silencing it, this new adult student carried on a conversation standing right there... Though this was more an infraction of general common courtesy and sense than anything else. The green belt did not make the break. For the most part, though, there is a solid amount of respect in our dojo.

 

[Balrog]

ShotoJon, ahh, yes, the respect issue. The fact that you know the difference between the way those people you mention act, and the way you know what a respectful demeanor is, tells much. You just keep it up. The hell with crap around you. If you're in the Arts for the long haul they will be but a memory. You will be an example.

Well stated. The ones who lead by example are the true leaders.

 

[Cyriacus]

The only acts of disrespect in our dojo come from the younger students, who don't bother to read the etiquette... Talking back in class, not bowing in or out, etc... But these are newb/kid issues, not the majority, and they get resolved. Parents talking loudly is something I've seen everywhere and it is difficult to stop. The only time I saw anything close to disrespect in our dojo was at the end of one night, when a student was going to give a breaking demo. The class fell silent and gathered around as he prepared himself. A solitary phone rang out suddenly, and instead of silencing it, this new adult student carried on a conversation standing right there... Though this was more an infraction of general common courtesy and sense than anything else. The green belt did not make the break. For the most part, though, there is a solid amount of respect in our dojo.

See now, id have just been angered slightly, and used that to Amplify the Break.

 

[chinto]

some Dojo's do not teach respect it seems. I have been in 2 Dojo's and they always have emphisized and taught respect first and always! I have seen people who claim to be martial artists who do not show respect to any one. I find them dangerous when they really are martial artists, and very sad. Respect and Humility are very valuable weapons in life and in many encounters as well. they can allow you to deescalate a situation, or if it does not deescalate, cause the attacker to underestimate you. both are good things for your survival.

 

[Master Dan]

Goodness, I am surprised to hear that even your senior grades are disrespectful! Or is that not perhaps a case of overfamiliarity? Does that equate to disrespect? Perhaps it does.

I think threats though are definitely inappropriate for any martial art and should result in severe penalty or disqualification in a competition. I think there is no place for that ever.

While, like you, I also have witnessed what is to me disrespectful behaviour, I think it is too general to say that respect in martial art is declining across the board. I even think that accusation cannot be blindly applied to perhaps those in the younger generation as we sometimes do. Any perceived decline in respect in MA, I would want to view in the bigger context of perceived declining respect in society in general. And but putting it in that context, I still find that many of those involved in martial arts, irrespective of age or generation have a greater respect for their own learning, their self-improvement and each other than some comparable non-martial artists do. Do you not agree?

I think too that we cannot always blame others for this. I think as a sensei, you must instil the values of respect in every new member who enters the training hall. That, like any kata or form, must be drilled repeatedly I think and must be corrected where it is necessary to. Thank you, Jenna.

A very good response I agree that in general it would seem that society is degrading in respect and prone more to violence possibly steming from many social developments related to the family and the media.

 

[Mike Melillo]

An update to my earlier post... There were tons of first-time kids last night... Mostly out of control, yelling, back talking at a very-patient Sensei, and basically running around screaming "hi-yah!"... And a line of dads and moms gabbing away on the side, oblivious. Having seen a ton of this kind of behavior in and out pf the dojo with alarming regularity, let's ponder your original query with another... Has society lost its ability to properly TEACH respect?

 

[Cyriacus]

An update to my earlier post... There were tons of first-time kids last night... Mostly out of control, yelling, back talking at a very-patient Sensei, and basically running around screaming "hi-yah!"... And a line of dads and moms gabbing away on the side, oblivious. Having seen a ton of this kind of behavior in and out pf the dojo with alarming regularity, let's ponder your original query with another... Has society lost its ability to properly TEACH respect?

Yes.
If youre that... Loud... In our Dojang, our Instructor will tell you to get out, and dont bother coming back.
Zero Tolerance, plain and simple.
If someone wont Respect the Art of those Partaking in it, they dont get to join in.
And this is made absolutely clear the first time you walk in.

It seems to have worked very well, since ive yet to meet a single Disrespectful Fellow.

 

[Buka]

An update to my earlier post... There were tons of first-time kids last night... Mostly out of control, yelling, back talking at a very-patient Sensei, and basically running around screaming "hi-yah!"... And a line of dads and moms gabbing away on the side, oblivious. Having seen a ton of this kind of behavior in and out pf the dojo with alarming regularity, let's ponder your original query with another... Has society lost its ability to properly TEACH respect?

With all due respect, that's not a Dojo. And I take umbrage at the notion of the Sensei being "very patient". There is something very wrong there.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

The Martial Arts lacked respect sometimes since the Asian systems were first introduced to the US in the 1950's. Back in those days it has been "My style is better than your style." Until this day there are some Martial Artists that are narrow minded, and cliquish.

In tournaments there could be bad teachers that push their students hard to win and teach them to do whatever it takes to win, even the parents of little children in tournaments try to get involved and push their kids to do whatever it takes to win. Over competiveness is the enemy of us, for it lacks respect. Not only in Karate tournaments, but in any type of sport.

 

[Blade96]

This thread pretty well outlines why I usually (and unfortunately) don't get along with most Karate people.

you'd get along with me I'm very friendly to people who are nice. and that's most people. =]