Hand Conditioning-Internal/External

[LawDog]

Distalero,
I agree with you, a persons fingertips are one of the most sensitive areas on the human body. On many of dates I have appreciated that medical fact.:ultracool

I am not against science, those who know me will state that I am very pro science. When I have been taught something and I have questions about it I will go to the appropriate specialists and ask them if the subject in question has been researched or not. If there was scientific research in the area and it produced conclusive results I will adjust accordingly. If there has been no real reasearch I will then place any scientific opinon about the subject into the area of personal opinon.
The Pro Mad Scientist,
Al C.

 

[LawDog]

Dajo,
for my personal use I believe in,
Hard to Soft,
Hard to Hard,
In a free fight on an uninjured opponent, the doorways for the soft targets change to rapidly, suddenly your soft target could become a hard target.
My students choose their own perferred striking weapons.

 

[Doc]

I think you are rather mistaken, and I think you would have a hard time finding a scientist that agrees with you. But if you can cite some sort of medical document to back this up I will be much more open to the idea. But I have heard far too many completely fictional claims made by old martial arts guys to take something like this for granted.

It is explaining an effect without following the scientific process. There hands might get tougher from what they do, but this is not why.

I agree.

 

[Bob Wright]

Lots of good points here, in a nutshell I firmly believe that in a scenerio of two people with all things equal, those with conditioned knuckles will inflict more damage against an attacker(s). Just my thoughts! Regards.

Bob Wright
Black Dragon Kempo
Melbourne AUSTRALIA

 

[bakxierboxer]

Probably keratosis of the skin. This is different from a density change via water in the tissue itself.

keratosis is not the same as a callus/callosity.
Medically, keratosis is usually known as the result/symptom of a disease or malign "condition".

Furthermore, proper MA conditioning is not merely superficial.
Over time, any developed superfical callosities are eventually "backed up" by "in depth" (hopefully orthopaedically neutral) callus/callosities on the bones.

Pete

 

[Empty Hands]

Over time, any developed superfical callosities are eventually "backed up" by "in depth" (hopefully orthopaedically neutral) callus/callosities on the bones.

Yes, I already indicated that bone increases density and trebecular alignment upon repeated stress. The question at hand is whether the soft tissue changes density, specifically by changes in water content. To my knowledge it does not. For one thing, increased solute content in the tissue would increase the colloidal pressure, probably leading to edema.

 

[bakxierboxer]

Yes, I already indicated that bone increases density and trebecular alignment upon repeated stress. The question at hand is whether the soft tissue changes density, specifically by changes in water content. To my knowledge it does not. For one thing, increased solute content in the tissue would increase the colloidal pressure, probably leading to edema.

Taking "first things first"...
My post was a response to your assertion that it was:

Probably keratosis of the skin....

and that "first thing" response was

keratosis is not the same as a callus/callosity.
Medically, keratosis is usually known as the result/symptom of a disease or malign "condition".

As for colloidal pressure within the tissues, callused skin generally has less than "normal" non-edematous tissue.

Keratosis is also usually confined to the upper/outer layers of the (epi)dermis.
Callus/callosities frequently become a good deal "thicker" over time.

Keratosis is an immune system response.
Callosities are a function of the body's adaptive/maintenance systems.

Pete

 

[distalero]

So, in summation (and to beat the issue to death, with whatever condition our hands are in):

1. Keratosis is a clinical issue, ie generally an abnormal condition

2. Keratin, a substance that forms in the upper cell layers of epidermis as it cornifies is the usual condition, only requiring us to look down at a body part and wave "Hi" in order to acknowlege it

3. Callus is the tissue/structure/condition resulting from repeated stress to a tissue that can respond in this particular manner.

4. Time, which heals all wounds in the short term , can cause conditions which compromise function in the longer term, if you go a beatin' your joints and kha-nuckles against enough resistance.

 

[Carol]

4. Time, which heals all wounds in the short term

And as any lady can affirm, time wounds all heels. :roflmao:

 

[bakxierboxer]

So, in summation (and to beat the issue to death, with whatever condition our hands are in)

A nice synopsis.
Some of your wording even prompted the return of some few memories
of the earlier days of Kajukenbo on the mainland.

2. Keratin, a substance that forms in the upper cell layers of epidermis as it cornifies is the usual condition, only requiring us to look down at a body part and wave "Hi" in order to acknowlege it

The "corn" in cornify is one such prompt.

3. Callus is the tissue/structure/condition resulting from repeated stress to a tissue that can respond in this particular manner.

Also reminds me that the current methods of conditioning are
not as inclusive as they used to be.

4. Time, which heals all wounds in the short term , can cause conditions which compromise function in the longer term, if you go a beatin' your joints and kha-nuckles against enough resistance.

My first Sifu had no malformations of his hands.
I do not... excepting a couple from youthful work-incidents
involving automobiles & servicing them.
While I was never big on hard conditioning, I've done a
reasonable amount of soft conditoning, and my dexterity
remains unimpaired.
If anything, my hands are still almost "too flexible".

Pete

 

[DavidCC]

I'm still interested in hearing the techniques for hand conditioning described.

thanks mr. C

-David

 

[Ray]

I'm still interested in hearing the techniques for hand conditioning described.

I'm pretty sure you can find a description in one of two books by Mr. Parker: Secrets of Chinese Karate or Kenpo Karate: Law of the Fist and Empty Hand. I don't recall which one though.

 

[DavidCC]

I'm pretty sure you can find a description in one of two books by Mr. Parker: Secrets of Chinese Karate or Kenpo Karate: Law of the Fist and Empty Hand. I don't recall which one though.

Thanks, Ray, I also have a guy who has completed Iron Palm through is Yi Li Quan training (and does the most impressive rock breaking), and has offered to get me there too...

But I was specifcially interested in what Mr. Cunningham had to say on the subject (him being a Senior in my particular branch of the tree and all (and I'd be happy to compare it to what Mr. Parker wrote - I bet they are similar having come from similar sources)

 

[Ray]

Thanks, Ray, I also have a guy who has completed Iron Palm through is Yi Li Quan training...

One of my students attended Yi Li Quan in your area when he lived in Nebraska.

I'll have to ask him is he had any of that conditioning.

 

[DavidCC]

I'm working with Sifu Tim H. ... when I can find the time which is not much lately